i drew my weapon tonight

[kingpinGT]

incident occurred about 3 hours ago. i'm finally calm enough to post about it. I will try to post as much detail as I can remember, but my brain tends to freak out under stress(something that needs to be worked on for the future)

My wife, daughter(8 months old), mother in law and I had just gone to fuddruckers' for dinner. We were returning to my mother in law's house as our daughter is spending the night at her house tonight and tomorrow.

We had pulled into her neighborhood, and I just took a right at a stop sign. There was a car directly behind me who ran the sign. I was following the 20MPH speed limit. The vehicle behind me was so close to my car I couldn't see his headlights. I was coming up on a left hand turn that I needed to take, and the vehicle behind me seized an opportunity to pass me on the left and cut me off. I made the left hand turn. He sped about 20 yards in front of me, cut his wheel to the left, stopped, and blocked the street with his vehicle.

At this point he stepped out of his vehicle in an aggressive manner. I immediately put my car into "park", unholstered my weapon, took it off safe, and kept it at low ready behind the steering wheel. He started coming towards us

I opened my door and stated very loudly and clearly that I was armed, that I am not afraid to use my weapon if he approached us. I repeated statements like this several times. He stopped approaching our vehicle. By this time HE and i both had vehicles behind us. my shot would have still been clear.

he then stated "MAYBE YOU SHOULDNT DRIVE LIKE AN IDIOT". I told him that he needed to get back into his car and leave. he then stated that he would call the police, I told him that was absolutely fine.

He got back into his vehicle and drove off. my wife dialed 911. The dispatcher took my very jumbled and adrenaline-fueled statement, and a slightly clearer statement from my wife. She also told us that we did the right thing.

We dropped off my mother in law and our daughter at my mother in law's house. After 10 minutes or so, a sheriff's deputy came by to talk to me. I told him the same story I've posted here, to the best of my recollection. I asked him if he needed my IDs, and he declined. He also stated that I was justified in what I did, and that the other driver had called 911 as well because of a "guy waving a gun around". He responded to us first. He also stated that he has no idea why the other guy called because he was acting and driving like a jerk.

I just needed to vent this, and get advice on what I would have done better/differently. I know I probably should have gotten away from the situation as quickly as possible at first, and it was probably VERY stupid to try and confront this moron, but it was the decision I made at the time.

I'm simply glad that no one got hurt. I've never been so scared in my entire life.

[mack113]

I think you did the right thing.....you had your family in the vehicle with you and had no idea what the guys problem was. Great job keeping your cool too. Sounds like the cops also believe you did the right thing.

[AJSully421]

Stuff like that is why you carry a gun. That guy might have said a few words and gone on his way, he might have beat you to a pulp and then left, or he might have killed your whole family... you had no way of knowing what his plans were.

I always say to people about CCW that just because you have a gun does not mean that you have to shoot someone with it. In this case, simply telling him that you had a pistol was sufficient to deescalate the situation. Everyone went home with the same number of holes in their bodies, cops saw that the situation resolved itself and left it alone. Everyone wins.

ETA: Another possible course of action would have been to dump it in reverse and get out of there. Seeing that you have no duty to retreat, and no shots were fired, I cannot fault you for making the choice that you did.

[kingpinGT]

Stuff like that is why you carry a gun. That guy might have said a few words and gone on his way, he might have beat you to a pulp and then left, or he might have killed your whole family... you had no way of knowing what his plans were.

I always say to people about CCW that just because you have a gun does not mean that you have to shoot someone with it. In this case, simply telling him that you had a pistol was sufficient to deescalate the situation. Everyone went home with the same number of holes in their bodies, cops saw that the situation resolved itself and left it alone. Everyone wins.

ETA: Another possible course of action would have been to dump it in reverse and get out of there. Seeing that you have no duty to retreat, and no shots were fired, I cannot fault you for making the choice that you did.

you're 100% correct. I keep replaying the scenario in my head and I SHOULD have done that when I saw him get out of his car. The only thought that entered my head is "protect my family" and my hand absolutely instinctively went to my handgun and my thumb immediately flipped the saftey. it all happened so fast it was unreal.

[n5wd]

At this point he stepped out of his vehicle in an aggressive manner. I immediately put my car into "park", unholstered my weapon, took it off safe, and kept it at low ready behind the steering wheel. He started coming towards us

I opened my door and stated very loudly and clearly that I was armed, that I am not afraid to use my weapon if he approached us. I repeated statements like this several times. He stopped approaching our vehicle. By this time HE and i both had vehicles behind us. my shot would have still been clear.

The adrenalin dump is the body's way of getting you ready for a fight -but, Oh, does it take a while to metabolize back to normal levels... I think you did Ok, but I'm unclear on one thing in the quote above.

When you opened your door, did you (a) remain seated with the gun out if sight of the other guy or did you (b) get out of the car and keep the gun from the other guy's view, or (c) get out of the car and let the guy see the pistol (whether you were aiming at him or merely had it at low ready)?

It was a tactical nightmare, with your wife, kiddoh and her grandma in the car, so the recommendation to leave would have been the most desireable choice, but like I said, I think you did Ok. Glad everyone got home safely!

[Beiruty]

Where you able to:
1) Get the number of the license plate of the other vehicle?
2) know if the PD talked to the other aggressive driver?

[kingpinGT]

At this point he stepped out of his vehicle in an aggressive manner. I immediately put my car into "park", unholstered my weapon, took it off safe, and kept it at low ready behind the steering wheel. He started coming towards us

I opened my door and stated very loudly and clearly that I was armed, that I am not afraid to use my weapon if he approached us. I repeated statements like this several times. He stopped approaching our vehicle. By this time HE and i both had vehicles behind us. my shot would have still been clear.

The adrenalin dump is the body's way of getting you ready for a fight -but, Oh, does it take a while to metabolize back to normal levels... I think you did Ok, but I'm unclear on one thing in the quote above.

When you opened your door, did you (a) remain seated with the gun out if sight of the other guy or did you (b) get out of the car and keep the gun from the other guy's view, or (c) get out of the car and let the guy see the pistol (whether you were aiming at him or merely had it at low ready)?

It was a tactical nightmare, with your wife, kiddoh and her grandma in the car, so the recommendation to leave would have been the most desireable choice, but like I said, I think you did Ok. Glad everyone got home safely!

I had one foot out the door, and the door was open. I could have used the door as a bench rest if I needed to do the unthinkable.

Where you able to:
1) Get the number of the license plate of the other vehicle?
2) know if the PD talked to the other aggressive driver?

1. no he was just a little too far and the car was at a wonky angle. i couldn't read it.
but...
2. yes, because he brilliantly called the cops on *me* as well. the responding deputy came and talked to me first, then said he was headed over to talk to him. I'd have traded my carry gun to be a fly on the wall for that conversation.

[Pecos]

Glad it turned out OK. It's all different when your under stress. May have went a different way if you were not armed!!!

[johncanfield]

He sounds like an extreme type "A" personality that would have felt fulfilled if he pounded on you.

You did good . Keep the whacko at a safe distance with loud commands mentioning that you are armed and ready and call 911. If you would have backed up to egress, this nut job might not have been satisfied with the ending and could have pursued you setting up another confrontation. Great outcome and good job.

A few years ago while making a left turn from a turn lane, I stopped at an yellow light that hadn't been yellow too long. The aggressive driver behind me went absolutely ballistic - I could see him screaming and pounding on his dash, he was obviously planning on making the light no matter what color it was. Fortunately that was the end of that episode (I was not carrying at that time.)

[Excaliber]

My first comment is: Congratulations to KingpinGT for achieving a perfect outcome in a very difficult situation - no shots fired, everyone went home in one piece, and there are no legal entanglements in the aftermath.

You have acquired real insight into how suddenly these situations develop, how much ambiguity they contain (what was the intent of the other party - verbal venting or violent attack?), how little time you have to make high consequence decisions, and how much your body's response to danger affects you both during the incident and afterwards. Thanks to your decision to share your experience, our members also have an opportunity to learn from it.

In the spirit of after action review (not criticism), I agree that the ideal response to having your forward path blocked and seeing the other driver exit his vehicle and approach your car would have been to rapidly back up, execute a K turn, and quickly head out of the area. By the time the other driver got back into his car and turned around, you'd be long gone.

Telling one of the other occupants in the vehicle to call 911 as soon as you were blocked and the other driver exited would have been a very good move. It would have clearly established you as the good guy (the one who called first). It would have started the response cycle and you could have advised the other driver that police were already responding which may have influenced what he did next, and your commands would have been recorded which would have been important if the situation had continued to go south.

Staying in your vehicle was a good decision because it kept you partially sheltered from incoming fire if the other person decided to attack and also kept you in a position to defend your family if needed. Separation under these circumstances creates an opportunity that an experienced adversary can exploit.

Using your left foot to brace the driver's door open rather than putting it on the ground is a better choice. It keeps it out of a potential line of fire and further stabilizes the door in the event that you need to fire through the opening between the door and the windshield post.

If your vehicle was directly aligned with the other driver's line of approach, turning on your high beam headlights would considerably impair his ability to see you and the other occupants and interfere with his ability to shoot accurately if he decided to attack. Moving your car a bit to achieve this alignment is also an option. Impaired vision is disconcerting to an adversary and can help him make better decisions - like rethinking if what he's doing is really as good an idea as it seemed a few seconds ago.

All in all, you did very well in a very difficult circumstance and sharing your experience on the Forum has given many others a chance to think through options and develop plans that may save them from harm or grief in a similar situation in the future.

Thanks for giving us all the opportunity to learn from the event.

[jbarn]

I am going to be the contriarian. Your CHL class includes non violent dispute resolution for just these types of incidents. What would have done had he kept walking towards you?

Here is when deadly force is justified;

Texas Penal Code
Sec. 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:
(1) if the actor would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; and
(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or
(B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.

In my opinion, pulling your gun was premature. I worry when our first response at an angry person is to grab our gun. We need other tools. If the only tool a carpenter carries is a hammer, eventually every problem begins to look like a nail.

[Excaliber]

I am going to be the contriarian. Your CHL class includes non violent dispute resolution for just these types of incidents. What would have done had he kept walking towards you?

Here is when deadly force is justified;

Texas Penal Code
Sec. 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:
(1) if the actor would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; and
(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or
(B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.

In my opinion, pulling your gun was premature. I worry when our first response at an angry person is to grab our gun. We need other tools. If the only tool a carpenter carries is a hammer, eventually every problem begins to look like a nail.

Please carry this line of thought further so our members can fully consider it:

1) What do you think the OP should have physically done differently (other than backing up, which has already been discussed)?

2) What should he have said to the other driver?

3) If the subject had ignored his words and continued to advance to his door, what should he have done?

[RPBrown]

I am going to be the contriarian. Your CHL class includes non violent dispute resolution for just these types of incidents. What would have done had he kept walking towards you?

Here is when deadly force is justified;

Texas Penal Code
Sec. 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:
(1) if the actor would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; and
(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or
(B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.

In my opinion, pulling your gun was premature. I worry when our first response at an angry person is to grab our gun. We need other tools. If the only tool a carpenter carries is a hammer, eventually every problem begins to look like a nail.

I have to respectfully disagree here. We have made a choice to carry and our weapon of choice is a tool. These are exactly the types of situations that cause us to carry.
To the OP, I think you did the right thing, especially if you never revealed your weapon to him.
However, since this actually happened last night, there remains a chance that there could still be some ongoing legal investigation. With this chance in mind, I am not sure I would have posted this soon.

[WildBill]

It's easy to second guess how a person reacts in a stressful situation after the fact.
Maybe there could have been some improvements, but the OP did a terrific job.

[Middle Age Russ]

The OP's responses and actions in the heat of the moment seem to have no lasting negative effects, which is commendable. As others have pointed out, clear thinking in the moment may present options that could have ended even better, or at least with lower risk of negative consequences. Many of us make a habit of thinking about the various options present at any given time if events suddenly go sideways. This is not because we are paranoid and looking for danger everywhere. It is rather to help ingrain a habit of awareness and consideration of options. Hopefully such exercises and habits will yield the dividend of the clearest possible thinking -- the consideration of as many options as possible -- in the moment. It is easy to arm-chair quarterback reported situations like this, but I concur with others that the OP did fine. Kudos, and keep thinking and training.