TexasCHLforum.com

I have questions about my first gun purchase since getting my CHL.

I bought my first .223 black rifle yesterday; mostly because I don't have much hope that the liberal Republican party will do much to stop the liberal Democrat party from banning them at some point in the near future. But enough of politics, I have a Policy and Procedure question: Does the law require you to fill out and sign the National Instant Check System form, the one with all the stupid "are you a criminal?" check boxes, even if you have a CHL?

They asked for and photocopied my DL and CHL and filed that with the NICS registration form. I don't think they actually did the phone check part.

I just assumed that my freshly minted CHL would take me back to the old days when buying a gun was like buying a hammer. I could have got this rifle for $10 less at the gun show, but I wanted to support my local gun dealer. That will change if I find out they are requiring legally unnecessary information gathering and can't be convinced to discontinue the practice.

Are there any privacy laws or regulations that could be used to discourage dealers from collecting Personally Identifiable Information when it is not necessary to do so?

Yes, you still have to fill out the paperwork. I've never had anyone make copies of my DL or CHL nor would I allow them to.

Bitterclinger wrote:Are there any privacy laws or regulations that could be used to discourage dealers from collecting Personally Identifiable Information when it is not necessary to do so?

Yes, be prepared and hit them in the pocketbook.

The CHL exempts you from the call in. But some stores have a "policy" of their own.

If you are about to buy a weapon from a store you have not been to before and are unaware of their "policy", ask when they hand you the 4473 and before you even write anything if they do the call in on CHL holders.

If their reply is yes to the call in, inform them you will be purchasing from another store that does not have a "policy" to circumvent/infringe on State Law.

And NEVER allow anyone to photocopy your DL or CHL.

jmra wrote:Yes, you still have to fill out the paperwork. I've never had anyone make copies of my DL or CHL nor would I allow them to.

They can look at me ID but it's not leaving my possession. If that queers the sale, I figure I dodged a bullet.

I wrote one of the guys that works there and he said the form was a federal requirement. Which sucks, because it basically means that every gun I buy is "registered".

He stated that the DL/CHL was story policy. I had asked about their document retention policy and disposition schedule and he responded that they will both documents for the life of their license.

As a document-management specialist, I think that is a REALLY STUPID policy. You want to dispose of sensitive documents as soon as you legally can. In the discovery phase, what you don't have can't hurt you.

Part of me feels like an idiot for giving up my ID so quick, but things were moving pretty quick and it wasn't like she said asked me or even informed me that she was going to make a copy. I just sort of noticed it there when she was wraping up with the "federally required" NICS form.

Truth be told, I'd probably have gone along with it and felt much better If I'd been asked. But I would have asked them to tell me how they secure there documents.

Bitterclinger wrote:I wrote one of the guys that works there and he said the form was a federal requirement. Which sucks, because it basically means that every gun I buy is "registered".

He stated that the DL/CHL was story policy. I had asked about their document retention policy and disposition schedule and he responded that they will both documents for the life of their license.

As a document-management specialist, I think that is a REALLY STUPID policy. You want to dispose of sensitive documents as soon as you legally can. In the discovery phase, what you don't have can't hurt you.

Part of me feels like an idiot for giving up my ID so quick, but things were moving pretty quick and it wasn't like she said asked me or even informed me that she was going to make a copy. I just sort of noticed it there when she was wraping up with the "federally required" NICS form.

Truth be told, I'd probably have gone along with it and felt much better If I'd been asked. But I would have asked them to tell me how they secure there documents.

I don't quite understand the problem.

1. It is federal law that a 4473 form be filled out by the purchaser when buying a firearm from a FFL. Were you not aware of this?
2. There is no information on your D/L or CHL that isn't already required to be placed on the 4473. You put in your height, weight, birth date, address, etc. on the 4473, and the FFL must record your D/L # and CHL number on his part of the form.
3. The FFL must keep the 4473 on file for 20 years, unless they go out of business sooner, and at the end of the time period they are turned in to the BATFE.

So, can you tel me what information they got that they weren't required to have by federal law?

Umm.....Picture on Photocopy of DL & CHL?

G26ster wrote:

Bitterclinger wrote:I wrote one of the guys that works there and he said the form was a federal requirement. Which sucks, because it basically means that every gun I buy is "registered".

He stated that the DL/CHL was story policy. I had asked about their document retention policy and disposition schedule and he responded that they will both documents for the life of their license.

As a document-management specialist, I think that is a REALLY STUPID policy. You want to dispose of sensitive documents as soon as you legally can. In the discovery phase, what you don't have can't hurt you.

Part of me feels like an idiot for giving up my ID so quick, but things were moving pretty quick and it wasn't like she said asked me or even informed me that she was going to make a copy. I just sort of noticed it there when she was wraping up with the "federally required" NICS form.

Truth be told, I'd probably have gone along with it and felt much better If I'd been asked. But I would have asked them to tell me how they secure there documents.

I don't quite understand the problem.

1. It is federal law that a 4473 form be filled out by the purchaser when buying a firearm from a FFL. Were you not aware of this?
2. There is no information on your D/L or CHL that isn't already required to be placed on the 4473. You put in your height, weight, birth date, address, etc. on the 4473, and the FFL must record your D/L # and CHL number on his part of the form.
3. The FFL must keep the 4473 on file for 20 years, unless they go out of business sooner, and at the end of the time period they are turned in to the BATFE.

So, can you tel me what information they got that they weren't required to have by federal law?

I believe at the end of the 20years, the records may be destroyed. If the dealer gors out of business before then, they must be sent to BATFE.

(e) Records of dealers and collectors under the Act. The records prepared by licensed dealers and licensed collectors under the Act of the sale or other disposition of firearms and the corresponding record of receipt of such firearms shall be retained through December 15, 1988, after which records of transactions over 20 years of age may be discarded.

If you don't give me your TXDL(ID) and TXCHL, which I have to have both if you are using a CHL to skip the background, I cannot properly do my job. I have to verify the info you wrote on the 4473 against your DL and CHL. I will not try to do this with someone holding on to it.

As other's have said, I have all the info I can find on your DL and CHL on the legally required 4473. If you have an FFL that does this without verifying the info on the DL and CHL, I'd love to know who it is and so would BATFE.

AEA wrote:Umm.....Picture on Photocopy of DL & CHL?

That's okay, they have better ones attached to your receipt and transaction number they got from all the CCTV.

RX8er wrote:

AEA wrote:Umm.....Picture on Photocopy of DL & CHL?

That's okay, they have better ones attached to your receipt and transaction number they got from all the CCTV.

Or the one the whole world has from your Facebook page

G26ster wrote:

RX8er wrote:

AEA wrote:Umm.....Picture on Photocopy of DL & CHL?

That's okay, they have better ones attached to your receipt and transaction number they got from all the CCTV.

Or the one the whole world has from your Facebook page

My Facebook page does NOT have my picture on it.

So, the upshot of this is: Having one's DL & CHL photocopied (for this purchase) is nothing to be upset about?

So, why are some proclaiming it is?

Thanks!

So if your CHL was revoked for committing a felony and you didn't return it to them you can still use it to skip the background check and purchase a gun (as a felon)? I didn't realize you could skip the background check, I thought it mostly just allowed you to skip putting down the SS# on the forms.

Abraham wrote:So, the upshot of this is: Having one's DL & CHL photocopied (for this purchase) is nothing to be upset about?

So, why are some proclaiming it is?

Thanks!

The problem I have with it is they don't need it. If they don't need it they shouldn't get it.