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I carried at SAHG yesterday. There is a 51% sign posted at the ticket booth, but I came in through a service entrance which was not posted. I have to go back today (disarmed), but I'd really like to know if this is a bogus sign because I go every year.

I'm almost sure it's bogus for two reasons: 1)There are no 78023 RED signs for it in TABC's search, and 2) It is not possible that the event meets 51%.

This is an annual two-day event. There is absolutely NO WAY that it meets 51%. There is a beer booth (no spirits), and the line is fairly busy, but the food vendors are backed up 30 deep most of the day, and the food is EXPENSIVE.

Lion and Rose Pub has a booth this year, so maybe it's their sign. Even then, I think they are selling a lot more expensive food than expensive beer at THIS location.

I have a few questions:

First: Can the sign travel with the business if it sets up a booth in a location remote from the licensed location? That seems unwise.

Second: What are the penalties (if any) for an individual or organization that illegally posts a bogus 51% sign. If there are none, this would be an excellent way for anti-2a people to get their stupid little way. After all, they are well known for flagrant disregard of the law when they think what they are doing is "for the good of the children."

Third: What is the best course of action if you (somehow) manage to determine the sign is bogus? 1) obey it? 2)Ignore it? 3) Report it? (how?)

I favor #2 because #3 might hassle them into figuring out how to post a legitimate sign that I would be obliged to obey; but then again, I was a Democrat when I was young so I sometimes lapse into treachery.

Fourth and last: Is there legal recourse or case law that might discourage the posting of bogus signs?

I believe temporary licenses for festivals don't appear in the online search, but you can contact TABC if you think the signs are incorrect.

That said, it's quite clear in 46.035 that premises means a building or a portion of a building.

Ok, maybe it's clear to the guy who wrote it, and a few lawyers, but what about the rest of the world? Where does the "building" end? Can I say that my whole city is a "building" and post a red sign at the city limits because we have a bar?

Anybody want to try to see my point here?

Bitterclinger wrote:Ok, maybe it's clear to the guy who wrote it, and a few lawyers, but what about the rest of the world? Where does the "building" end? Can I say that my whole city is a "building" and post a red sign at the city limits because we have a bar?

Anybody want to try to see my point here?

Your point is less than sharp.

The law is very specific, and if you think the signage is improper a simple phone call to TABC will result in an investigation. The problem in this situation is that the site is transient in nature and the whole event, sign and all is likely to be gone by the time TABC gets there. And it's likely that TABC (nothing against them) would never find anyone who would admit to putting the sign up or being responsible for it, and a warning to not put the same sign up next year if it's invalid, would be routinely ignored.

Some one has to be holding the liquor license for the event, right? Ask to see it. Maybe when I retire in a couple years and am even more cranky I'll start going to these events just to complain and raise a ruckus.

If it bothers you, complain to the TABC officially and in writing. Follow up to ask what enforcement action was taken.

If you really want t push, contact the TX AG if you think the TABC isnt doing their job. Blog. Stir up everyone you think will be riled up by non enforcement of liquor laws if you get no satisfaction. But be sure you have the facts right or you will lose all future credibility.

Bitterclinger wrote:Can I say that my whole city is a "building" and post a red sign at the city limits because we have a bar?

You can say The Pope is a Southern Baptist but that doesn't make it so. Not even if you post a red sign.

Bitterclinger wrote:I have a few questions:

First: Can the sign travel with the business if it sets up a booth in a location remote from the licensed location?

• TABC retail permit holders may be eligible to obtain a temporary permit to sell or serve alcoholic beverages at an event taking place at a location separate from their TABC-licensed premises.
• Civic, religious or charitable organizations may be eligible to obtain a temporary permit to sell or serve alcoholic beverages at a special event not being held on TABC-licensed premises.

Source: http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/faq/licensing.asp

Bitterclinger wrote:Second: What are the penalties (if any) for an individual or organization that illegally posts a bogus 51% sign.

It is not illegal to post a 51% sign, so there are no criminal penalties. (But see #4.)

It's also not illegal to ignore a 51% sign posted at locations that aren't bona fide 51% premises.

Bitterclinger wrote:Third: What is the best course of action if you (somehow) manage to determine the sign is bogus? 1) obey it? 2)Ignore it? 3) Report it? (how?)

What is best is extremely subjective. I would probably ignore it.

Bitterclinger wrote:Fourth and last: Is there legal recourse or case law that might discourage the posting of bogus signs?

If the poster has a TABC license or permit, there may be administrative penalties, but I think it's more likely they will be told to fix the signage. If they're not a TABC licensee or permittee, they can post 51% signs but they have no legal standing. For example, I know more than one firearm instructor who has a 51% posted so students know what they look like. That doesn't prohibit students with a CHL from carrying there.

I was there today. I'd say the signs were bogus, or put up by someone who doesn't know what they mean. The whole place would have to be a beer garden to justify the 51% sign. Couple small beer shacks in the far back. Far more food and trinkets were being sold, not to mention the entry cost. Only saw a few people walking around with beers. The signs were posted at gates leading out of the are, even though they weren't publicly accessible, as well as the ticket booth. Only saw a few bored PD inside the area, the rest in the parking lot.