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Handgun locked in Fire Station parking lot
Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:10 pm
by exbellicus
Hey all - quick question - I'm a firefighter and a CHL holder. Is it legal for me to keep my gun locked in my vehicle in the parking lot while at work?
Does the city employee handbook have any effect on this if it prohibits doing so? Is that legal if it does? I understand Texas is a right to work state, but if I was reprimanded for doing so, would I have any chance in a legal battle?
Thanks for your time.
Re: Handgun locked in Fire Station parking lot
Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:52 pm
by Gungirl
My understanding is that the law does not matter in an employment issue. Meaning, even if ou may legally carry, if your employer says no carry, and finds out you do, they can fire or reprimand and you have no recourse. This is for premises or property or parking lot, employers can make up rules and fire or reprimand for not following them...if they find out. Your choice on taking the risk. I am fortunate my employer wants me to carry at work.
Re: Handgun locked in Fire Station parking lot
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:01 am
by RottenApple
Gungirl wrote:My understanding is that the law does not matter in an employment issue. Meaning, even if ou may legally carry, if your employer says no carry, and finds out you do, they can fire or reprimand and you have no recourse. This is for premises or property or parking lot, employers can make up rules and fire or reprimand for not following them...if they find out. Your choice on taking the risk. I am fortunate my employer wants me to carry at work.
The part about the parking lot is not correct except in a few specific areas.
Labor Code Subchapter GA
52.061. Restriction on Prohibiting Employee Access to or Storage of Firearm or Ammunition.
A public or private employer may not prohibit an employee who holds a license to carry a
concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, or who lawfully possesses ammunition from transporting or storing a firearm or ammunition the employee is authorized by law to possess in a locked, privately owned motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area the employer provides for employees.
Sec.A52.062.AaExceptions. (a) Section 52.061 does not:
(1) authorize a person who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, or who lawfully possesses ammunition to possess a firearm or ammunition on any property where the possession of a firearm or ammunition is prohibited by state or federal law; or
(2) Apply to:
(A) a vehicle owned or leased by a public or private employer and used by an
employee in the course and scope of the employee ’s employment, unless the employee is required to transport or store a firearm in the officia discharge of the employee ’s duties;
(B) a school district;
(C) an open-enrollment charter school, as defined by Section 5.001, Education
Code;
(D) a private school, as defined by Section 22.081, Education Code;
(E) property owned or controlled by a person, other than the employer, that is
subject to a valid, unexpired oil, gas, or other mineral lease that contains a provision prohibiting the possession of firearms on the property; or
(F) property owned or leased by a chemical manufacturer or oil and gas refiner with an air authorization under Chapter 382, Health and Safety Code, and on which the primary business conducted is the manufacture, use, storage, or transportation of hazardous, combustible, or explosive materials, except in regard to an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun
under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and who stores a firearm or ammunition the employee is authorized by law to possess in a locked, privately owned motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area the employer provides for employees that is outside of a
secured and restricted area:
(i)A that contains the physical plant;
(ii)A that is not open to the public; and
(iii)Athe ingress into which is constantly monitored by security personnel.
Of course, if that's why they fire you, would they even tell you? And if not, then how do you prove it.
Re: Handgun locked in Fire Station parking lot
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:09 am
by Gungirl
Thanks for the correction!
Re: Handgun locked in Fire Station parking lot
Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:00 am
by n5wd
exbellicus wrote:Hey all - quick question - I'm a firefighter and a CHL holder. Is it legal for me to keep my gun locked in my vehicle in the parking lot while at work?
Does the city employee handbook have any effect on this if it prohibits doing so? Is that legal if it does? I understand Texas is a right to work state, but if I was reprimanded for doing so, would I have any chance in a legal battle?
Thanks for your time.
If you're civil service as opposed to the general employees of the city, there may be different rules that govern the question. You might wanna ask the union rep or legal guy.
Re: Handgun locked in Fire Station parking lot
Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:41 am
by Jumping Frog
This is a classic example of "Don't ask, don't tell". Just keep you mouth shut.
It isn't illegal. People asking questions get brought to the attention of HR who will feel under pressure to "do something". Just like "concealed means concealed" when carrying, it also means concealed in the vehicle and concealed is more than just a physical condition.
Re: Handgun locked in Fire Station parking lot
Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:27 pm
by Dragonfighter
n5wd wrote:exbellicus wrote:Hey all - quick question - I'm a firefighter and a CHL holder. Is it legal for me to keep my gun locked in my vehicle in the parking lot while at work?
Does the city employee handbook have any effect on this if it prohibits doing so? Is that legal if it does? I understand Texas is a right to work state, but if I was reprimanded for doing so, would I have any chance in a legal battle?
Thanks for your time.
If you're civil service as opposed to the general employees of the city, there may be different rules that govern the question. You might wanna ask the union rep or legal guy.
I am a charter member of our
association, no civil servant unions in Texas. I sought and got an opinion from our attorney. He was not a real fan but he kept his feelings out of it. A government entity cannot deny access (with a few statutory exceptions) to their facilities. Employees can be disciplined and terminated if caught carrying a CW while on duty. The parking lot law does apply (fire stations are not excepted) and you cannot be terminated for securing a legally owned firearm in your vehicle, IF discovered.
As a civil service employee, any discipline has to be documented and preserved in your file and their records. Falsifying records is a felony and the involved chain of command can do time for it. Should you be discovered as having a weapon in your vehicle and they discipline or terminate you, they will have to document it so they can't come back later and fabricate something else, at least not successfully. Can you say early and bountiful retirement?
Re: Handgun locked in Fire Station parking lot
Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:02 pm
by exbellicus
Thanks for the input guys, much appreciated. My department is not civil service, and plan to continue with the don't ask don't tell policy, but just wanted to know what the legality of it was.
Re: Handgun locked in Fire Station parking lot
Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:45 pm
by Dragonfighter
exbellicus wrote:Thanks for the input guys, much appreciated. My department is not civil service, and plan to continue with the don't ask don't tell policy, but just wanted to know what the legality of it was.
Not being civil service may create a problem in documentation, but it doesn't change the legality of keeping it in your car, in the parking lot. You are wise in the decision not to talk about it.