Is this legal?

[Backfire]

I was talking to a friend - and he had an experience that got me thinking. I am a new CHL guy (waiting to come in mail).
He was traveling and went into a gas station at 1:00 am. He went into the bathroom and he was being cased by someone. As soon as he entered the room another guy burst behind him, Bill (my friend) was at the urinal. The bad guy had another friend that entered the bathroom and signaled for him to leave - a cop come in the store to get some coffee. My friend was lucky - blessed not to get mugged or worse.

Question: Can you pull a weapon and shoot someone that physically attacks you with there fist only? When you know "its coming" do you have to wait until he pulls a knife, or weapon to draw and shoot the attacker? Do you have to endure a beatdown and let him go if he has no weapon and you two are comparable in size?

[Ace5299]

You can pull and shoot anyone at anytime...the real question is should you and what happens to you when you do? For me, I know what I would do and you should too. there are a lot more qualified members on here that I'm sure will help you on the legal aspects but you should have gone over this in your CHL class. A few things to think about

1. Do you feel like your life is threaten?
2. Can you remove yourself from the threat?
3. Can you deal with the consequence of your action (legal or not)
4. Why do you carry? What are your limits before you draw and fire?

I know this does not answer your question of if this is legal or not. I am not a lawyer although I play one on TV.

[Jumping Frog]

Sounds like a robbery. Guy says, "Give me your money", and he gets perforated.

They should have covered the crimes that give the presumption of justified self defense in your class.

[Scott Farkus]

When I took my CHL class, the instructor said that fists alone were never justification to use deadly force. I don't know whether that's true or not (he told us some other things that turned out to be incorrect), but that's what he said.

Having said that, I don't think many juries in Texas would convict you for pulling a weapon in such a situation, even if a grand jury indicted you for it, and even that's a big IF.

[Target1911]

The husband of a good friend of mine was killed with one punch to the head from a guy showing off for some other girls. The husband was of average build in his mid 20s. The bg was early 20s, about 3" shorter and about 40lb lighter. The husband was dead before he hit the ground. Lucky punch???? Maybe...but he is still dead, still a child without his daddy and still a mommy without her husband.

It's not legal advising but it is the truth and a possibility.

[C-dub]

The very first CHL shooting in Texas was a little guy getting pounded on by a big guy. The little guy was able to get his gun and shoot and kill the big guy and he was "no billed."

When there is a disparity of force (multiple attackers against one, young against old, or big against little) we are justified in pulling our weapon out whether we use it or not. If you are in fear for your life you are justified in using deadly force. In this situation, I'm not sure if you would be justified in pulling your gun out before the guy started pounding on you, but if he did start pounding on you and you feared for your life then you're good to go.

[JustMe]

Why is it that there are so many first posts that are "can I shoot" questions?

[Heartland Patriot]

Why is it that there are so many first posts that are "can I shoot" questions?

I've wondered the same thing.

[Purplehood]

You were never a new poster? I know that I was...

[JustMe]

You were never a new poster? I know that I was...

Yes, I was--and am still new. but my first question wasn't--"Can I shoot someone"

[steveincowtown]

You were never a new poster? I know that I was...

I agree with you about this, but at the same time there are a lot of new post by people who have taken the class and are asking about information that should have been covered in the class. Not sure about the OP's class, but use of force was covered extensively in my class.

[Heartland Patriot]

You were never a new poster? I know that I was...

I agree with you about this, but at the same time there are a lot of new post by people who have taken the class and are asking about information that should have been covered in the class. Not sure about the OP's class, but use of force was covered extensively in my class.

Agreed...I had a good set of instructors though (Crossfire, cough cough).

[Purplehood]

You were never a new poster? I know that I was...

I agree with you about this, but at the same time there are a lot of new post by people who have taken the class and are asking about information that should have been covered in the class. Not sure about the OP's class, but use of force was covered extensively in my class.

I agree that his instructor did him a severe disservice.

[PUCKER]

A suggestion (or at least what I do) that gives you somewhat of an edge when using a public restroom - head for the stall - usually the door can be locked and you are not as "vulnerable" as when using the urinal.

[fickman]

You were never a new poster? I know that I was...

Yes, I was--and am still new. but my first question wasn't--"Can I shoot someone"

My guess is that most of them think of the question, do some Google searching, and stumble upon our little community. The question and search for clarity in the law leads them here, so naturally, it's the first thing they ask.

I was obsessed with the "what-ifs" when I first got my CHL because my instructor did a poor job explaining a threat continuum and how to set a threshold of "Do I fear for my life or serious bodily injury?"

----
To OP:
As with most questions here, it depends. We can't answer every scenario definitively, but we can try to communicate a framework to use for your decision making.

You need to establish a threat continuum. . . and determine the threshold for different actions. What level of fear would make you draw? What level of fear would make you shoot? What is a clear line of demarcation to draw between the two?

For example, "If they block the door, I'm going to verbally demand they move. If they demand my money or respond with a threat, I'm going to draw. If they begins to attack, I'm going to shoot."

In the back of your mind (or preferably, before you're in the situation), consider the questions, "What do I have to do to survive" and then temper that against, "How will that look being explained to a jury?"

If you're 78 and there's one attacker using his fists in his early 30's, it's easier to explain your actions.

If you're 30 and there's one attacker using his fists in his late 70's, it's going to be very hard to explain your actions. Change it slightly so that he has a knife or gun, and it's easy to explain your actions.

If you're 24 and there's one attacker using fists about your same size. . . it gets a little murky to explain. Change it by adding a second attacker, and it gets a little easier.

Read the law and understand the requirements for:
- Threatening the use of force
- Using force
- Threatening the use of deadly force
- Using deadly force

Welcome to the forum!