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Yesterday I went to the North Texas Irish Festival at Fair Park with my family. I did some looking around beforehand and found a "No knives, guns, etc. of any kind" post in the FAQ section of their website. I took my firearm with me and had my lock box in my car just in case. Outside the entrance they only had a sign that said "No knives, guns of any kind." No 30.06 sign or anything even remotely similar. As I understand the law that sign has no legal standing against a CHL holder. Fair Park is city property and the Festival is not a permanent attraction. And I assumed that if you could carry at the State Fair surely you could carry at the Festival.

Being the idiot that I am I asked the cop at the gate - walked up to him and showed him my CHL and asked if the sign still applied. He said that I was not allowed to carry and when I mentioned that they didn't have the proper sign posted, etc. he said (word for word) "It doesn't matter. It is their prerogative. They don't want you to carry so you can't." I thanked him, walked back to my car and put my gun in the lock box. Went back in a still enjoyed the Festival even though I was a little miffed about the whole situation.

I know some people will say I shouldn't have asked. What I want to know is if it is legal to carry at something like the Irish Festival even with the sign they had posted. If it is legal what happens if I do carry, manage to get exposed somehow and then the cops come and arrest me?

Also, if it is legal to carry there why can't the cops enforce the law as it is supposed to be enforced?

RugerBD

rugerbd wrote:He said that I was not allowed to carry and when I mentioned that they didn't have the proper sign posted, etc. he said (word for word) "It doesn't matter. It is their prerogative. They don't want you to carry so you can't." I thanked him, walked back to my car and put my gun in the lock box. Went back in a still enjoyed the Festival even though I was a little miffed about the whole situation.

The cop lied.

More importantly why did the cop lie?
Did he lie because he is ignorant of the Law?
Did he lie because in his mind only cops should carry guns?
Did he lie because he is being paid to lie by the Promoter?

Nothing against the LEO's that actually do their job and know the Laws. Only talking about twerps like this one.

I think it is really a shame that we ALLOW this to happen.
We need someone, when accosted illegally this way, to immediately get a Lawyer to obtain a Court Order to the Promoter to obey the Law or shut the event down. Right then, no fooling around as we did with Fair Park in the past to get them Legal. And I would have got the Officers name and made a report to his Chief (maybe even thru the same Lawyer).

It's time we STAND UP for our RIGHTS! Stop hiding in the bushes!

I wish I hadn't asked... I have a good holster and was wearing a loose enough shirt (and occasionally my jacket) that I know I wouldn't have printed or exposed myself. No one would have known. But, I didn't want to take the risk. As I understand it I could have been arrested had I exposed my firearm somehow or if someone somehow noticed I was carrying. I know that I could beat the charges in a situation like that, but it just isn't worth the risk to me. And, I got to have good beer and whiskey and not have to worry about carrying and consuming.

Your choice but I hope you had a designated driver if you were drinking.

If I had carried I would not have had anything to drink. I stopped drinking several hours before I left the festival so I was perfectly fine to drive when I left. The only whiskey I had was a couple of half ounce puts for tasting early in the afternoon.

I just went to the 2013 North Texas Irish Festival for the first time.

No signs, no problems. Although I did not imbibe as I was carrying and had my underage daughter with me.

Got the LEO discount, but still seemed a fair amount of money for what I got. Wasn't as exciting as I had hoped, but a nice day out with soon to be leaving for college daughter.

Peruse this thread viewtopic.php?f=7&t=62495&hilit=galveston+mardi+gras" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I know the situation is a little different (mardi gras vs. fair park), but the premise is the same. And the OP gives some good advice for how to handle the situation of being denied entry while carrying. I would have carried away, and would not have asked to begin with. But, you have a point about personal risk. You may beat the rap, but you'll be taking the ride.

As for LEOs who are supposed to know the law, with as many laws that have been forced upon us, I don't expect a LEO to know EVERY little piece of every statute, law, etc. When I don't get a satisfactory answer, I go up to the next level. That's what a supervisor is for. I come from a family of law enforcement, and my family has shared some wild stories. Most LEOs are very good at what they do. But as in all occupations, there are those who do screwy things.

TBM

I could be wrong, but I think Gungirl's point was that as the OP was from last year, where there were signs, there were no signs this year. Dunno

Yes. I saw no signs and I had no problems carrying. They did not search bags( although I do not purse carry) and they did not wand. But I did not take the risk of entering the "booze" areas while carrying.

G26ster wrote:I could be wrong, but I think Gungirl's point was that as the OP was from last year, where there were signs, there were no signs this year. Dunno

OK - I totally missed the date issue. Saw March, and just thought it was March of this year.

Now I get it.....

TBM

jimlongley wrote:

rugerbd wrote:He said that I was not allowed to carry and when I mentioned that they didn't have the proper sign posted, etc. he said (word for word) "It doesn't matter. It is their prerogative. They don't want you to carry so you can't." I thanked him, walked back to my car and put my gun in the lock box. Went back in a still enjoyed the Festival even though I was a little miffed about the whole situation.

The cop lied.

The sad thing about our CHL laws concerning LEOs if they believe effective notice has been given they will arrest you. Will you beat the case don't know depends on where you were arrested if Austin very liberal whos knows. Worked for a DA who would always say you never know what a jury is going to do. If you win you still have an arrest record that shows up & you lose your CHL until the case is disposed of. Wish the state law makers would take care of this define some CHL laws. Anyway we as CHL holders don't break the law so no test cases to draw from.

AEA wrote:More importantly why did the cop lie?
Did he lie because he is ignorant of the Law?
Did he lie because in his mind only cops should carry guns?
Did he lie because he is being paid to lie by the Promoter?

Nothing against the LEO's that actually do their job and know the Laws. Only talking about twerps like this one.

I think it is really a shame that we ALLOW this to happen.
We need someone, when accosted illegally this way, to immediately get a Lawyer to obtain a Court Order to the Promoter to obey the Law or shut the event down. Right then, no fooling around as we did with Fair Park in the past to get them Legal. And I would have got the Officers name and made a report to his Chief (maybe even thru the same Lawyer).

It's time we STAND UP for our RIGHTS! Stop hiding in the bushes!

He lied (1) because he was asked and (2) he didn't know the law

RPBrown wrote:

AEA wrote:More importantly why did the cop lie?
Did he lie because he is ignorant of the Law?
Did he lie because in his mind only cops should carry guns?
Did he lie because he is being paid to lie by the Promoter?

Nothing against the LEO's that actually do their job and know the Laws. Only talking about twerps like this one.

I think it is really a shame that we ALLOW this to happen.
We need someone, when accosted illegally this way, to immediately get a Lawyer to obtain a Court Order to the Promoter to obey the Law or shut the event down. Right then, no fooling around as we did with Fair Park in the past to get them Legal. And I would have got the Officers name and made a report to his Chief (maybe even thru the same Lawyer).

It's time we STAND UP for our RIGHTS! Stop hiding in the bushes!

He lied (1) because he was asked and (2) he didn't know the law

Sorry sir don't believe the officer lied he was asked at that point gave his answer oral or written notice is effective notice not to carry in the location. Not knowing the law I think we're all quilty of this with everyone having opinions as to what this or that means concerning CHL signs (etc) can be very difficult at best. These officers have a tough job not as easy as it may seem. That being said I would love too see some clarity concerning CHL laws. Every class I'm asked "can I be arrested for walking past a gun buster sign" the answer is yes arrest is not conviction but the ride has a price to pay loss of carry until case is disposed of attorney fees (etc). Not because I'm a retired LEO but I always obey police when they tell me something not because they know every law but because they can arrest me for not. Please understand I believe we have a right to carry under the 2A but folks we have a long way to go get some things cleared up.

cw3van wrote:

RPBrown wrote:

AEA wrote:More importantly why did the cop lie?
Did he lie because he is ignorant of the Law?
Did he lie because in his mind only cops should carry guns?
Did he lie because he is being paid to lie by the Promoter?

Nothing against the LEO's that actually do their job and know the Laws. Only talking about twerps like this one.

I think it is really a shame that we ALLOW this to happen.
We need someone, when accosted illegally this way, to immediately get a Lawyer to obtain a Court Order to the Promoter to obey the Law or shut the event down. Right then, no fooling around as we did with Fair Park in the past to get them Legal. And I would have got the Officers name and made a report to his Chief (maybe even thru the same Lawyer).

It's time we STAND UP for our RIGHTS! Stop hiding in the bushes!

He lied (1) because he was asked and (2) he didn't know the law

Sorry sir don't believe the officer lied he was asked at that point gave his answer oral or written notice is effective notice not to carry in the location. Not knowing the law I think we're all quilty of this with everyone having opinions as to what this or that means concerning CHL signs (etc) can be very difficult at best. These officers have a tough job not as easy as it may seem. That being said I would love too see some clarity concerning CHL laws. Every class I'm asked "can I be arrested for walking past a gun buster sign" the answer is yes arrest is not conviction but the ride has a price to pay loss of carry until case is disposed of attorney fees (etc). Not because I'm a retired LEO but I always obey police when they tell me something not because they know every law but because they can arrest me for not. Please understand I believe we have a right to carry under the 2A but folks we have a long way to go get some things cleared up.

He cannot give written or oral notice in a government owned property.

PC §30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUN.
(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and
(2) received notice that:
(A) entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden; or
(B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was forbidden and failed to depart.
(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.
(c) In this section:
(1) “Entry” has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b).
(2) “License holder” has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f).
(3) “Written communication” means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: “Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun”; or
(B) a sign posted on the property that: (i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.
(d) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035