Conceal Cary in hospitals

[noosh9057]

Just wanted to no if it is legal to carry in a Texes hospital.
Thanks.

[Dave2]

Just wanted to no if it is legal to carry in a Texes hospital.
Thanks.

Assuming you have a CHL and the hospital doesn't have valid 30.06 signs posted, yes, it's perfectly legal to carry in one (though keep in mind that even an unloaded all-ceramic Glock 7 contains too much metal to be in the room with an MRI machine).

Just to clarify, to the best of my knowledge, all those non-government places that are listed as automatically off-limits in the CHL statutes are no longer automatically off-limits because of an amendment at the end of the CHL statutes. (Apparently it's easier to complicate our statutes by passing Law B which nullifies Law A than it is to simplify our statutes by just removing Law A altogether.) And don't forget that the ban on CCing in certain governmental buildings is still there.

[noosh9057]

Thanks so much for this info.

Roger

[RHenriksen]

Dave2 is certainly correct; I would add, though, that hospitals (at least around here in Houston) are one class of business which are *very* consistent in posting correct, legally enforceable 30.06 signs. Darn it... my wife works in one, and her recently-acquired CHL is not doing her as much good as she'd like.

[Dragonfighter]

Dave2 is certainly correct; I would add, though, that hospitals (at least around here in Houston) are one class of business which are *very* consistent in posting correct, legally enforceable 30.06 signs. Darn it... my wife works in one, and her recently-acquired CHL is not doing her as much good as she'd like.

Most hospitals require their security or PD to escort folks after dark. I don't know what shift she works, but if second or third shift I would definitely advise she use that security.

Added in Edit: This brings to mind another question. A 30.06 sign in a private hospital, okay. But what about county or state hospitals?

[michael e]

Dave2 is certainly correct; I would add, though, that hospitals (at least around here in Houston) are one class of business which are *very* consistent in posting correct, legally enforceable 30.06 signs. Darn it... my wife works in one, and her recently-acquired CHL is not doing her as much good as she'd like.

The only two in the houston area I have been to are not posted. Which ones are?

[RHenriksen]

Dave2 is certainly correct; I would add, though, that hospitals (at least around here in Houston) are one class of business which are *very* consistent in posting correct, legally enforceable 30.06 signs. Darn it... my wife works in one, and her recently-acquired CHL is not doing her as much good as she'd like.

The only two in the houston area I have been to are not posted. Which ones are?

Everyone I've been to

[Teamless]

dont forget about the University hospitals, they are off limits due to the school situation

[wgoforth]

Virtually every hospital I have visited have valid 30.06 signs. Which was VERY frustrating as my son was in downtown Dallas Baylor for a month. Bad area. Then when I would leave at night, it would be dark and I had to walk to a distant parking lot...no escorts either.

[srothstein]

This brings to mind another question. A 30.06 sign in a private hospital, okay. But what about county or state hospitals?

County and other government owned hospitals cannot legally enforce section 30.06. This is clear from the language of that section. BUT, and this is a majorly important but, if there is a properly posted 30.06 sign at one of those locations, then when you carry in you are still in violation of 46.035, which is a class A misdemeanor the same as unlawfully carrying or criminal trespass.

And of course, this gets worse when it is a private hospital, a church, or an amusement park. If you ignore the sign then, you can be charged with both violations - 46.035 and 30.06.

[johnson0317]

Steve,

One of the things I see get mentioned, and that I have not been able to sort out satisfactorily, is the common belief that you can not be busted for carrying in a 30.06 environment unless you have been asked to leave, and refuse to. I know this is true of places such as a private residence, but is it true in legally posted 30.06 areas?

For what it is worth, both of the main hospitals in Tyler are posted, but I have yet to see any valid sinage from either of them. The largest print I have seen used at either facility is under 1/2".

RJ

[The Annoyed Man]

This brings to mind another question. A 30.06 sign in a private hospital, okay. But what about county or state hospitals?

County and other government owned hospitals cannot legally enforce section 30.06. This is clear from the language of that section. BUT, and this is a majorly important but, if there is a properly posted 30.06 sign at one of those locations, then when you carry in you are still in violation of 46.035, which is a class A misdemeanor the same as unlawfully carrying or criminal trespass.

And of course, this gets worse when it is a private hospital, a church, or an amusement park. If you ignore the sign then, you can be charged with both violations - 46.035 and 30.06.

Steve, I'm not disagreeing with you, but how can that make any kind of logical sense?

46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF A HANDGUN BY A LICENSE HOLDER

• (b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:
  • (4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate;

• (i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

If.....

1. It is a government owned hospital; and
2. It is not a teaching hospital which is part of a state university campus; and
3. The hospital is not posted 30.06 (because government cannot post a 30.06 sign; and
4. You have a CHL and are carrying a concealed weapon.....

....then how on earth can you be guilty of anything? The law bars a government from posting a 30.06 sign on a government owned hospital (at least in theory). You can carry into a hospital that is not posted 30.06 because (411 (i)) gives you a defense to prosecution........what am I missing?

[srothstein]

TAM,

Part of what you are missing is that there is nothing preventing a governmental agency from posting a 30.06 sign, just for prosecuting someone for disobeying it. So, then question becomes if the sign meets the notice requirements in 30.06, not if the sign is valid for enforcing 30.06. Section 46.035 says given effective notice under 30.06, and this is specifically defined in 30.06 as the posted sign (or written, etc). Think of it as a shortcut to avoid having to spell out the requirements for the sign again in a different section of the law.

So if there is a properly worded sign, you are given effective notice. The location may not be eligible to prosecute under 30.06, but the notice is effective under 46.035.

Johnson0317,

One common mistake is that people think you cannot be prosecuted unless you refuse to leave. This is not the law for either 30.05 or 30.06, either in public or private property, even residences. If you ignore a valid sign under 30.05 you can be prosecuted without the owner even being present. Consider the situation of a parking lot that has a chain link fence around it that is obviously designed to keep people out (barbed wire top and all). Crossing this fence is all that the law requires for the charge to be legal. A police officer on patrol sees a person climbing the fence to get into the parking lot at 3:00 a.m. The officer does not see any evidence of any other crime. He can legally arrest the person for criminal trespass (as they climb back out) and the charge would be legal.

A 30.06 sign is just like that fence. Crossing it is all that is needed to be charged.

I think the myth about being asked to leave started because so few people properly post their homes against trespass. When was the last time you saw a house with a real "No Trespassing" sign? If you want to post one, or a proper 30.06 sign, you could and they would be all that is needed legally.

[speedsix]

"Part of what you are missing is that there is nothing preventing a governmental agency from posting a 30.06 sign, just for prosecuting someone for disobeying it. So, then question becomes if the sign meets the notice requirements in 30.06, not if the sign is valid for enforcing 30.06. Section 46.035 says given effective notice under 30.06, and this is specifically defined in 30.06 as the posted sign (or written, etc). Think of it as a shortcut to avoid having to spell out the requirements for the sign again in a different section of the law.

So if there is a properly worded sign, you are given effective notice. The location may not be eligible to prosecute under 30.06, but the notice is effective under 46.035. "

...the term "effective notice" does not belong anywhere near the first quoted paragraph....here's why....


...in a business or other public place...if the sign meets ALL of the requirements listed in 30.06, then I have been given effective notice and must/will obey it...if it does NOT meet ALL of the requirements listed in 30.06, I have NOT been given effective notice and am not legally bound to either acknowledge the sign's presence or obey it...

...if a governmental agency posts a properly made 30.06 sign, in a place NOT prohibited in 46.03 or 46.035...I can ignore it, since they are not legally posting it...it is an exception listed in 30.06(e)...30.06 does not apply there...and so effective notice has NOT been given ...and there is no offense...the "effective notice" mentioned in 46.035(i) refers ONLY to non-governmental places specifically listed there...the "effective notice" mentioned in 46.035(k) refers ONLY to TABC-licensed businesses...there is no tie-in with "effective notice" and governmental premises...

...NOW...a hospital "licensed under Ch.241, Health and Safety Code", is NOT exempted by 30.06(e) because it IS already a prohibited place under 46.035(b)(4)...IF a PROPER 30.06-described sign is posted...30.06(e) doesn't deal with hospitals...BUT, for the hospital so licensed to become forbidden under 46.035, it must be CORRECTLY posted according to 30.06...if it is NOT posted 30.06, once again, there is no relevance to the words "effective notice" until THEY follow 30.06 in any of the prescribed ways...

[C-dub]

I find it difficult to understand how a place that is statutorily on-limits and cannot prohibit me from carrying is able to give effective notice. As long as it remains concealed I am at a loss to understand how I could be prosecuted in a situation like this. Thankfully, I also don't foresee it becoming an issue for me either.