Restaurants with bars. (Chili's etc)

[Commander]

I don't know why you couldn't sit at the bar counter while carrying if its not posted 51% or 30.06

[KBCraig]

Bars and restaurants are licensed differently. I can't imagine having separate licenses for each part of the same business.

That said, it's conceivable that a local option somewhere in Texas has things set up so that beer and wine can be served in the restaurant, but liquor is restricted to the bar, which has to have its own separate license, possibly as a private club. Improbable, but possible.

Liquor laws in Texas don't make much sense. Texarkana recently voted on two measures. They passed the ordinance eliminating the private club requirement for restaurants to serve alcohol, but defeated the ordinance that would have allowed beer and wine to be sold in grocery stores.

You can sit at the bar of Texas Roadhouse and drink hard liquor all night long, but you can't pick up a six-pack at Wal Mart, to enjoy safely at home.



Kevin

[Commander]

I assume a good rule of thumb is you are allowed to carry and sit anywhere aside from the bar counter itself, unless the restaurant is posted 30.06, or 51% sign at the front door or area around the front door, correct?

I was going by this statement. The way I see it, if the restaurant is not posted 30.06 or 51% at the bar, there is no reason you couldn't sit at the bar counter while carrying.

[kauboy]

I don't think the bar is required to post a "51%" sign. You are required to know whether or not they meet the requirements for one, however. It is your resoponsibility to know. Unfortunately, they don't have to let you know ahead of time.

[gigag04]

All of Chili's or similar places should be fine.

[Liberty]

I don't think the bar is required to post a "51%" sign. You are required to know whether or not they meet the requirements for one, however. It is your resoponsibility to know. Unfortunately, they don't have to let you know ahead of time.

I think they are required to post. But whether or not they post doessn't matter. As far as Concealed Carry goes it is whether they sell at 51% or more If they have a 51% sign and they are not a 51% you can legaly carry. If there is no sign and the receipts are 51% or more at the bar then it is illegal to carry. The sign is meaningless

That being said I wouldn't carry into a Chilli's etc. unless I were pretty sure about the place. Bar reciepts may be determinned by all beverages. even the non alcohalic ones. Liquor is expencive and these places can have a large bar crowd after work hours and during sporting events. It would be real easy to underestimate these places.

[Popshot]

My understanding is that there is no requirement for an establishment to post a 51% sign. However, if a 51% sign is posted, there is a requirement that the establishment meet the criteria. If not, then a call to TABC will get the sign removed.

The trick, for us, is to determine when a place becomes more bar than restaurant.

By outward appearance to the general public, Chili's is a restaruant (serving food, non-alcoholic and alcoholic beverages to customers). Without any more information, it seems like a judgement call. If it looks like a bar, smells like a bar, tastes like a bar - then it's a bar.

[nitrogen]

That being said I wouldn't carry into a Chilli's etc. unless I were pretty sure about the place. Bar reciepts may be determinned by all beverages. even the non alcohalic ones.

It's my understanding that only alcoholic beverages count toward the 51% requirement, wether they are sold directly at the bar, or by waitresses.

For example, one of my co-workers favorite hangouts is a place called The Flying Saucer in Addison. It looks like a resturant, but it's a beer garden type place that serves mostly beer and just a few bits of food, and therefore apparently is a 51% establishment. (They have a sign at least.)

[kauboy]

I think they are required to post. But whether or not they post doessn't matter. As far as Concealed Carry goes it is whether they sell at 51% or more If they have a 51% sign and they are not a 51% you can legaly carry. If there is no sign and the receipts are 51% or more at the bar then it is illegal to carry. The sign is meaningless

That being said I wouldn't carry into a Chilli's etc. unless I were pretty sure about the place. Bar reciepts may be determinned by all beverages. even the non alcohalic ones. Liquor is expencive and these places can have a large bar crowd after work hours and during sporting events. It would be real easy to underestimate these places.

Ah! Sure enough:
§ 411.204. NOTICE REQUIRED ON CERTAIN PREMISES. (a) A
business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28,
32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, and that derives 51 percent
or more of its income from the sale of alcoholic beverages for
on-premises consumption as determined by the Texas Alcoholic
Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code,
shall prominently display at each entrance to the business premises
a sign that complies with the requirements of Subsection (c).
(b) A hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety
Code, or a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and
Safety Code, shall prominently display at each entrance to the
hospital or nursing home, as appropriate, a sign that complies with
the requirements of Subsection (c) other than the requirement that
the sign include on its face the number "51".
(c) The sign required under Subsections (a) and (b) must
give notice in both English and Spanish that it is unlawful for a
person licensed under this subchapter to carry a handgun on the
premises. The sign must appear in contrasting colors with block
letters at least one inch in height and must include on its face the
number "51" printed in solid red at least five inches in height.
The sign shall be displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible
to the public.
(d) A business that has a permit or license issued under the
Alcoholic Beverage Code and that is not required to display a sign
under this section may be required to display a sign under Section
11.041 or 61.11, Alcoholic Beverage Code.
(e) This section does not apply to a business that has a food
and beverage certificate issued under the Alcoholic Beverage Code.

I rescind my argument.
However, it strictly points out that only the "sale of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption" is counted toward the 51% tally.
But, like you said, even if they don't post it, it's still our responsibility to know and act accordingly.

What really puzzles me is that subsection(b) says that a hospital "shall" display as well. Does this follow the same logic as "we should know it even if they don't show it"? Even if a hospital doesn't display this sign, can we still carry there? I know that 30.06 says we can't if a proper 30.06 sign is present, but why include this section here?

[txinvestigator]

What really puzzles me is that subsection(b) says that a hospital "shall" display as well. Does this follow the same logic as "we should know it even if they don't show it"? Even if a hospital doesn't display this sign, can we still carry there? I know that 30.06 says we can't if a proper 30.06 sign is present, but why include this section here?

Because hospitals were once off-limits completely, so the sign was required. It appears than when the exception for hospitals were listed under 30.06, that they forget to delete subsection (b) of TGC 411.204.

Just remember that 411.204 is not enforceable on YOU. 411.204 does not make crimes or penalties for carrying handguns anywhere.

The crimes and penalties are in the Penal Code. The Penal Code is what you are subject to.

[kauboy]

What really puzzles me is that subsection(b) says that a hospital "shall" display as well. Does this follow the same logic as "we should know it even if they don't show it"? Even if a hospital doesn't display this sign, can we still carry there? I know that 30.06 says we can't if a proper 30.06 sign is present, but why include this section here?

Because hospitals were once off-limits completely, so the sign was required. It appears than when the exception for hospitals were listed under 30.06, that they forget to delete subsection (b) of TGC 411.204.

Just remember that 411.204 is not enforceable on YOU. 411.204 does not make crimes or penalties for carrying handguns anywhere.

The crimes and penalties are in the Penal Code. The Penal Code is what you are subject to.

By your use of "you", you mean an individual, right? As in, not a business entity?

Also, I haven't been able to find where in the Penal Code it enforces the "51%" rule. Could you point me to the section?

EDIT: Nevermind, 46.035
Holy jeez! Its a third degree felony if you're found guilty of this. I think I'm gonna be extra cautious about these separate bar/restaurant places from now on.

Of course with as much as Chili's charges for chips and salsa and a stupid dish of cheese, I'm pretty sure they're getting their big bucks from oinkers like me.

[propellerhead]

I carry at Chili's all the time. Often, I sit in the bar are because tables are almost always readily available. I'm a non-smoker but I can tolerate sitting in the smoking section at Chili's.

So, have we decided whether the bar at restaurants were off-limits?