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Private airport question
Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 9:10 pm
by houstonsailor
I can't get a solid answer to this.
My private hangar at a private airport. Legal or not to carry? Technically it is a 'secure area' of an airport, however I am not required to go through any security to fly my own aircraft. The same is true when I fly to large airports. (no metal detectors or security for private aircraft) I have only seen a 30.06 sign at ONE FBO (think of an FBO as a private terminal), and there was a review about this particular FBO on an aviation website in regards to the 30.06 sign where a pilot said he was avoiding this FBO because of this.
The last time I was at MillionAir in Hobby, there was a few guys flying out for a hunting trip and they were loading rifles from the ramp in to the plane. No big deal, what about carrying concealed?
Can anyone on here provide a definitive answer?
Re: Private airport question
Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 9:45 pm
by jmoney
Believe it or not i was sitting in the atlantic air private terminal wondering the same thing earlier today. I saw no signs, but i disarmed once on the plane and rearmed after landing just for safety reasons. My understaning is unless it is a sterile zone, then normal carry rules apply.
Re: Private airport question
Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 10:11 pm
by Kythas
AFAIK the Federal ban on firearms only applies to commercial aviation. If you're a private pilot with your own plane, I don't believe the ban applies. After all, are you going to hijack your own plane?
But then, I'm not a lawyer. Heck, I don't even play one on TV.
Re: Private airport question
Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 10:16 pm
by apostate
houstonsailor wrote:Technically it is a 'secure area' of an airport,
What makes you say that? I thought screening was a requisite part of the definition of sterile area. It's been a few years, and rules may have changed under Obama, but I often used to fly (as PIC) with a handgun
Re: Private airport question
Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 10:18 pm
by Kythas
Here's a page from an aviation attorney where he states it's legal to carry on private aircraft, with some caveats.
http://www.lawyerintl.com/law-articles/ ... 20Aircraft
Finally, if you are flying in a private aircraft that is not being operated by a common carrier from one state to another, and no other statutes apply to your flight, you will still be subject to 18 USC §926A regarding the interstate transportation of firearms which states that "any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle".
This statute allows you to transport firearms between states subject to the statute's conditions: that you can lawfully possess the firearm at your points of departure and arrival, and the firearm is unloaded and inaccessible during the trip. However, what if you are a CCW permit holder and you want to carry concealed between states? Well, fortunately 18 USC §927 states that Section 926A does not pre-empt applicable state law. Thus, if you can lawfully carry a concealed weapon in the state in which you board the aircraft and in the state in which you land, you are not subject to the unloaded and inaccessible restrictions of Section 926A.
For operations of private aircraft within one state, you will only be subject to the laws of the state within which you are operating. You will need to review your state's statutes to determine whether they impose any restrictions on possession of firearms within non-sterile areas of airports. You will also need to be familiar with the airports you will be visiting to determine whether each airport has any restrictions (e.g. posting to prohibit concealed carry etc.).
Edit: Forgot to cite the source.
Re: Private airport question
Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 7:46 am
by Mel
Yep! What Kythas said.
I own a private airport and normal state laws apply. I carry when I fly. Again, you need to be aware of the rules & regulations at other airports you are flying into. Some FBOs are posted; Most are not.
Re: Private airport question
Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 10:21 am
by houstonsailor
awesome. This forum is an incredible source of information. Thanks!
Re: Private airport question
Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 9:18 pm
by FL450
My company leases a hanger from Signature FBO at Hobby. I spoke HPD at Hobby and their take was it's a private business and treated as such. Airport ops and TSA might have a different view. I carry in our hangar all the time as well as out to our aircraft. All you Hobby guys Pm me and we will have lunch at Hobby and discuss airplanes and guns
Re: Private airport question
Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 9:22 pm
by FL450
apostate wrote:houstonsailor wrote:Technically it is a 'secure area' of an airport,
What makes you say that? I thought screening was a requisite part of the definition of sterile area. It's been a few years, and rules may have changed under Obama, but I often used to fly (as PIC) with a handgun
It's a private ramp, not the Airline AOA secure area.
Re: Private airport question
Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 10:31 pm
by srothstein
Perhaps it would help if you read the actual wording of the Texas Penal Code:
Sec. 46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a): ...
(5) in or into a secured area of an airport; or ...
(c) In this section:
(1) "Premises" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035.
(2) "Secured area" means an area of an airport terminal building to which access is controlled by the inspection of persons and property under federal law.
So, as you can see from the law, if there is no one screening the passengers entering the terminal, it is not a secure area and you can legally carry there. I would be careful if I were going on an interstate trip because other states may make the whole airport off limits. I remember when there was a move to do that in Atlanta.
BTW, this is why I consider most of our airport security to be a joke. I can take of a small to medium size plane from lots of public non-airline served airports and land at the airline served ones. With some planes, I can load a full squad of men with lots of weapons and ammo and take over anything at the major airport I want to.
Re: Private airport question
Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 10:39 pm
by FL450
In addition to srothstens comments, an airport that serves airlines might have different agency's interpretating the law differently, ie Local law enforcement ,TSA, Airport security.
Re: Private airport question
Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 11:50 pm
by tomc
srothstein wrote:So, as you can see from the law, if there is no one screening the passengers entering the terminal, it is not a secure area and you can legally carry there. I would be careful if I were going on an interstate trip because other states may make the whole airport off limits. I remember when there was a move to do that in Atlanta.
Steve is right regarding security screening. Most airports have two controlled access areas: secured and restricted. Secured areas are areas where one must go through screening to enter boarding areas for commercial passenger aircraft. Restricted areas are areas where access to the airport is restricted to airport tenants, hangars, work areas, etc. In Texas, carry in restricted areas is OK, just don't go near a commercial passenger carrying aircraft.
Steve is also right in that if you fly to another state in a private aircraft, look up the laws for carrying at an airport in the other state. Virginia prohibits carrying anywhere on the airport. I think Indiana does also, but there are not that many states that do. Just know before you go.
Re: Private airport question
Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 3:18 am
by jamullinstx
Nevada's McCarran Airport is off limits in all areas, but I'm not sure if that is Nevada state law or what.
Re: Private airport question
Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 3:46 am
by FL450
jamullinstx wrote:Nevada's McCarran Airport is off limits in all areas, but I'm not sure if that is Nevada state law or what.
Good to know, I will be flying there next week to one of the FBO's. I guess it's time to studie up on Nevada Laws.
Re: Private airport question
Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 10:51 pm
by houstonsailor
FL450, I flew into KLAS one time and it will be my last. Now I usually land at Henderson or North LV. I prefer Henderson by far. KLAS rapes you on the fuel prices. I was actually thinking about a Vegas trip possibly end of this week or next weekend ....