False accusation...

[Seabear]

I was reading the road rage thread and remembered that I hadn't posted this story.

Recently a friend of mine told me about a bad situation his nephew is in. Seems he was riding his motorcyle to or from work and a lady cut him off nearly hitting him. He watched her go ahead and nearly swipe another unrelated MC. The second ridder flipped her off and sped away. When they came to the next stop light my friends nephew yelled at the lady telling her she nearly hit him and the other rider and that she needed to pay attention. The light turned green and he took off. Next thing he knows this lady is tailgating him. He speeds up and gets away from her. When he gets home 3 police officers show up and say that the lady had called in and said that he waived a pistol at her and threatened her. As it turns out he has a CHL and was carrying. He explained to the police what happened and that he in no way would have done that and risk loosing his CHL and his job for which he has to have top security clearance. 2 officers believed him and felt the lady was lying, but one didn't believe him. Now he has a little legal battle to deal with.

It mad me realize just how easy a CHLer could be falsely accused and when checked, sure enough, there is a gun. Hmmm, how you gonna get out of that one?

[PBratton]

I was reading the road rage thread and remembered that I hadn't posted this story.

Recently a friend of mine told me about a bad situation his nephew is in. Seems he was riding his motorcyle to or from work and a lady cut him off nearly hitting him. He watched her go ahead and nearly swipe another unrelated MC. The second ridder flipped her off and sped away. When they came to the next stop light my friends nephew yelled at the lady telling her she nearly hit him and the other rider and that she needed to pay attention. The light turned green and he took off. Next thing he knows this lady is tailgating him. He speeds up and gets away from her. When he gets home 3 police officers show up and say that the lady had called in and said that he waived a pistol at her and threatened her. As it turns out he has a CHL and was carrying. He explained to the police what happened and that he in no way would have done that and risk loosing his CHL and his job for which he has to have top security clearance. 2 officers believed him and felt the lady was lying, but one didn't believe him. Now he has a little legal battle to deal with.

It mad me realize just how easy a CHLer could be falsely accused and when checked, sure enough, there is a gun. Hmmm, how you gonna get out of that one?

I would bet that there are a few cameras in the area of the incident that may provide some clarity.

[Keith B]

I was reading the road rage thread and remembered that I hadn't posted this story.

Recently a friend of mine told me about a bad situation his nephew is in. Seems he was riding his motorcyle to or from work and a lady cut him off nearly hitting him. He watched her go ahead and nearly swipe another unrelated MC. The second ridder flipped her off and sped away. When they came to the next stop light my friends nephew yelled at the lady telling her she nearly hit him and the other rider and that she needed to pay attention. The light turned green and he took off. Next thing he knows this lady is tailgating him. He speeds up and gets away from her. When he gets home 3 police officers show up and say that the lady had called in and said that he waived a pistol at her and threatened her. As it turns out he has a CHL and was carrying. He explained to the police what happened and that he in no way would have done that and risk loosing his CHL and his job for which he has to have top security clearance. 2 officers believed him and felt the lady was lying, but one didn't believe him. Now he has a little legal battle to deal with.

It mad me realize just how easy a CHLer could be falsely accused and when checked, sure enough, there is a gun. Hmmm, how you gonna get out of that one?

Unless there is another witness to testify in her behalf, it should be a he said/she said and there would be no proof one way other other. However, if they have decided to charge him with failure to conceal or assault, then he is still gonna have to have a lawyer to help fight the charges and hopefully get them dropped. If they do end up going to court and can prove her wrong, then maybe they will charge her with filing a false police report. But, then all she has to do was say, 'Well, I thought it was a pistol; maybe it was just his hand and pointing a finger.

[Oldgringo]

How and what does the CHL, or lack thereof, have to do with this story?

If he didn't show it, no one would know it. {hey, that rhymes }

[Seabear]

How and what does the CHL, or lack thereof, have to do with this story?

If he didn't show it, no one would know it. {hey, that rhymes }

What it has to do with it is that it can be viewed as circumstantial evidence (?????) Or at least as one heck of a coincidence. Coincidence being he is accused of pulling gun, and when questioned had a gun on him.

Either way, as stated above he has had to hire a lawyer and fight it when he didn't do anything. Pretty scary if you think about it.

[MasterOfNone]

The accuser should be able to reasonably identify the gun (revolver/semi, stainless/pink/blue). Answering this right won't positively identify the gun, but a wrong answer should go a long way to clearing him. If the woman says it was a stainless revolver and he's carrying a blue semi, she loses a lot of credibility. If two of the cops believed him, they could have shown her a wrong-type gun and ask if it is the one she saw. If she's making up her claim, she'd probably say it is.
Until this moment, I never considered this unique value of those cute little pink guns that are out there. If someone is going to wrongly accuse you of pulling a gun, how likely are they to say it was pink? "Ma'am, are you saying that you saw the gun clearly enough to know it's a gun, but you didn't notice that it was pink?" Of course, the color would also make the gun stand out to a bad gun when you really do pull it.

This case really emphasizes the need to exercise restraint when carrying, especially if you are not shy about carrying (or if outed like the guy who said on here that a guard at the fair announced him).

[A-R]

Doesn't have to be pink either. Duracoat comes in a variety of colors.

[ex_dsmr]

I think this is a secret fear of many CHL holders. Whats the most logical way of getting someone in trouble after some sort of altercation? "He pulled a gun on me officer!" And if you happen to be carrying (or worse yet, look a "certain" way) you may very well end up behind bars or at least in some sort of legal battle.

Ask her to describe the gun? She would probably either say it was "black and scary looking" or "I didnt get a good look at it, I was afraid for my life".

I dont know who is worse, those who would put a gun to your head and demand your wallet, or those who use the courts and police to wreck the lives of innocent citizens because they were angered. It seems that you toy with encountering either situation no matter which road you take (chl or no chl)

Having said all that, I try not to escelate incidents on the road by shouting at people or making rude gestures. I daily commute on a motorycle and ive nearly been merged into countless times. Does it make me mad? HECK YES! Do I think its worth getting into a shoving fest against a 5000lb SUV or being accused as the OP's friend was? No. Part of CHL training is de-escelating situations. And just as in the friends situation, im convinced that people anymore wouldnt think twice about running you over or making a false police report and going home to eat a nice dinner. We have devolved into a rather vindictive society.

[LabRat]

I was reading the road rage thread and remembered that I hadn't posted this story.

Recently a friend of mine told me about a bad situation his nephew is in. Seems he was riding his motorcyle to or from work and a lady cut him off nearly hitting him. He watched her go ahead and nearly swipe another unrelated MC. The second ridder flipped her off and sped away. When they came to the next stop light my friends nephew yelled at the lady telling her she nearly hit him and the other rider and that she needed to pay attention. The light turned green and he took off. Next thing he knows this lady is tailgating him. He speeds up and gets away from her. When he gets home 3 police officers show up and say that the lady had called in and said that he waived a pistol at her and threatened her. As it turns out he has a CHL and was carrying. He explained to the police what happened and that he in no way would have done that and risk loosing his CHL and his job for which he has to have top security clearance. 2 officers believed him and felt the lady was lying, but one didn't believe him. Now he has a little legal battle to deal with.

It mad me realize just how easy a CHLer could be falsely accused and when checked, sure enough, there is a gun. Hmmm, how you gonna get out of that one?

A lot of things went wrong in this scenario from the get-go.

1st: The first person to call the cops is the victim, regardless of what was done.
If you see a dangerous maneuver, call the cops, give good info and let them sort it out.

2nd: Never interact negatively with another motorist; either verbally or by demonstration (swerving near to them, etc.)
Don't do it and then refer to #1 above.

3rd. Once the police arrive at your house, speaking to them will result in no good outcomes.
(I input in another thread regarding this thought).
There is no way to talk yourself out of being arrested or charged. Either they've already decided to arrest or not.
What you say will not sway them one way or the other and you give them further information they didn't already have or suspect.

Remember, 3 cops were sent, not 1....so someone already thought this was a very serious matter.

Now that the cops have verbal information from the accused (rightly or not), its not just the woman's word against the rider, all 3 cops will now testify that:

a) defendant told us he had a verbal altercation with the woman (confirms an important piece of her story);

b) He was carrying a handgun at the time we spoke to him (can't be avoided due to CHL rules on identification), and here's the kicker.

c) He stated that he did have a handgun at the time the woman reported (albeit falsely) that he pointed a gun at her.

All the cops had before he spoke was her accusation and the fact that he was carrying a gun at the time THEY SPOKE TO HIM.

The now-defendant supplied the information that he had the gun at the time of the verbal altercation.....that slams the door on "Honest officer, I didn't do it because I'm a CHL holder" defense. "People" are capable of anything at anytime. Its like your stockbroker telling you "past performance is no indication of future results".

While 2 out of 3 cops believed the guy, it only takes 1 officer to arrest anyone. And you likely won't be able to use that "disagreement" between them as any indication of whether the MC rider is really innocent. It'll be inadmissible since its opinion, not based on "fact" (wherever they may have come from).

In this case a camera video would help alot if it captures the entire event. Doubtful.

This woman guessed and got lucky; but the MC rider helped build the case against himself.

All this is just my opinion................

LabRat

[steve817]

I myself would like to hear the woman's whole story. When did he pull the gun? At the light or while moving? What did the gun look like? Where did he pull it from? Waist band or shoulder holster? Which hand did he use to pull it? It would only take someone a few moments to rip her story apart assuming your friend is telling the truth.

[alvins]

Their is a thread on here about a guy who accused me of waving a gun at him. he didnt want to press charges and i never heard anymore about it.

[steveincowtown]

.
3rd. Once the police arrive at your house, speaking to them will result in no good outcomes.
(I input in another thread regarding this thought).
There is no way to talk yourself out of being arrested or charged. Either they've already decided to arrest or not.
What you say will not sway them one way or the other and you give them further information they didn't already have or suspect.

LabRat

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Check out this talk a Regent University...tons of insight into the subject.

[CC Italian]

Sad to hear, I had a high school punk in his daddy's newer Mustang tail gate me and honked his horn over and over like an idiot when I was doing 55mph in a 45mph about two months ago. He could have easily passed me with 300hp on a road that was not busy but decided to be a (put your own word in).

I just pulled over on the side of the road to let him pass and he stopped and flicked me off and laughed and said nice piece of poop (you know what he really said) and did a burn out and left. Needless to say I was pretty mad but I quickly remembered not to get emotional and just turned down another road and went another way home incase the kid decided to get out of his car and do something stupid if he caught a light and I caught up. I work with kids all day long so I know how they can just snap and do stupid things 100 times quicker then the average adult, just too many hormones and lack of experience.

The incident you described is another reason why I try to always keep calm when someone is road raging and get out of the situation ASAP. I try to make myself a pacifist unless someone is an immediate threat to my loved ones or me.

Scientists and NHTSA have done studies on road rage for years and if someone has a very aggressive personality or is a bully off the road they are more likely to have road rage. Some people just seem to forget that a car or truck is a 2,500- 6,000 pound weapon when road raging!

Glad no one was hurt and I hope the nephew has no legal problems from this. Just remember guys, get out of the situation ASAP when dealing with road rage! Leave your ego at home and remember you are the one with the gun and must remain calm, collective and make rational decisions.

[Oldgringo]

Sad to hear, I had a high school punk in his daddy's newer Mustang tail gate me and honked his horn over and over like an idiot when I was doing 55mph in a 45mph about two months ago. He could have easily passed me with 300hp on a road that was not busy but decided to be a (put your own word in).

I just pulled over on the side of the road to let him pass and he stopped and flicked me off and laughed and said nice piece of poop (you know what he really said) and did a burn out and left. Needless to say I was pretty mad but I quickly remembered not to get emotional and just turned down another road and went another way home incase the kid decided to get out of his car and do something stupid if he caught a light and I caught up. I work with kids all day long so I know how they can just snap and do stupid things 100 times quicker then the average adult, just too many hormones and lack of experience.

The incident you described is another reason why I try to always keep calm when someone is road raging and get out of the situation ASAP. I try to make myself a pacifist unless someone is an immediate threat to my loved ones or me.

Scientists and NHTSA have done studies on road rage for years and if someone has a very aggressive personality or is a bully off the road they are more likely to have road rage. Some people just seem to forget that a car or truck is a 2,500- 6,000 pound weapon when road raging!



Glad no one was hurt and I hope the nephew has no legal problems from this. Just remember guys, get out of the situation ASAP when dealing with road rage! Leave your ego at home and remember you are the one with the gun and must remain calm, collective and make rational decisions.

It seems that everyone on the planet must have at least one cell phone, right?

Has anyone thought about pulling over to the side of the road, call the law and report a reckless driver, TX License no. XXX-YYY, who may possibly be DUI and who is endangering others ?

If the offending driver also stops and tries to enter your vehicle though its closed windows and locked doors, tell the Dispatcher what's going on and then proceed to SHOW TIME: .

[CC Italian]

About 12 years ago I wrote down a guy’s license plate for driving recklessly. He was doing 75+ in a 45 and weaving in and out of lanes. Well I pulled up behind him after several cars were honking at him for almost hitting them and he saw me writing down his license plate number. When the light turned green I turned off because he was _______ me off (funny how they always flick you off). He must have turned around and was right on my bumper honking and yelling out of his window. I slowed down to let him hopefully keep going and he did not. He stopped behind me and started revving his engine. I them called the cops and drove slowly toward the local constable station. They said they were sending a car out but when he realized I was heading that way he turned around.

Needless to say the Constables ran his plate and found that he had a record. They told me it was for domestic battery. The police told me they were going to pay him a visit at his residence in Tomball and arrest him for reckless driving/endangerment and anything else that they could throw at him because not only myself but another person called in his license plate not 10 minutes before me. I don't know what happened to him and I never got his name but the officer took my statement and the constables took the other citizens statement as well. That’s the last I heard of it.

I was in my late teens when this happened. I should have been a little more discreet about taking down his license plate but back then I was cockier and didn't think of things like that. It worked out in the end but the guy followed me for 5 minutes before he turned around. The whole time I was on the phone with the dispatcher. Being only a teen it was scary to say the least! There were a lot of things I could have done differently but at no time was I aggressive in the situation. I will admit I was scared and young but it could have gone real bad. The constable told me that it was not the first time someone was followed for writing down a license plate. It just makes them even madder and violent.

Edit: Guess I can't say flick, sorry moderators. Let me rephrase that, he pointed his middle finger straight up in the air. I can't think of a more G rated way to say it then that.