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No Gun Apartment Lease?
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 3:49 pm
by Scire.Factor
I am getting ready to move to Texas and have found an apartment complex that may be really interested in. I called the front office and the first thing I asked them was if they had a firearm policy. They replied that they are gun free and it is in the lease. They emailed me a copy of their lease and below is the only thing I can find regarding firearms. I believe the following (in bold) says that I am only not allowed to display, discarge, or pocess in a threatening way. Do you all think that from the below part of the lease that I am not allowed to have a firearm in the apartment? Thank you in advance.
CONDUCT OF RESIDENT: Resident agrees to abide by all federal, State and municipal laws, ordinances, regulations
or orders (including but not limited to those pertaining to use of hazardous substances) as well as Owner’s Rules and
Regulations now in force and effect or which may be hereafter enacted. Resident agrees that Resident or Resident’s
guests or the Roommates or their respective guests shall not: (i) be loud, obnoxious, disorderly, boisterous, or
unlawful; (ii) disturb or threaten the rights, comfort, health, safety, or convenience of others (including Owner’s
agents) in or near the Community; (iii) display, discharge, or possess, a gun, knife, or other weapon in a way that may
threaten or alarm others or Roommates including but not limited to any pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, or other
weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind, knives of stated dimensions, razors, throwing stars, nun
chucks, and similar objects;
Re: No Gun Apartment Lease?
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 3:54 pm
by Griz44
Sounds pretty clear to me. It's OK to have a gun there, just don't go waving it around everywhere.
I read a case law article where an apartment tried to force a no-gun policy on the tennants.
The right to protect oneself was deemed more important than the apartment's liberal bias.
Seems the apartment can't make up it's own laws when you rent, and therefore, control the property in question.
Re: No Gun Apartment Lease?
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 3:55 pm
by HighHandicap
I think the best thing to do would be to call a lawyer and get their take on it. I'd be pretty tempted to move on from a place like that since they're obvious intent is to be anti-gun. Have you looked at their physical location? Maybe they're a posted 30.06 and you can't carry there.
Edit:*** They may not be able to legally enforce their policy, but they can be a real pain in the butt until you can't wait to leave. Better safe than sorry.
Re: No Gun Apartment Lease?
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 3:57 pm
by ScottDLS
Scire.Factor wrote:I am getting ready to move to Texas and have found an apartment complex that may be really interested in. I called the front office and the first thing I asked them was if they had a firearm policy. They replied that they are gun free and it is in the lease. They emailed me a copy of their lease and below is the only thing I can find regarding firearms. I believe the following (in bold) says that I am only not allowed to display, discarge, or pocess in a threatening way. Do you all think that from the below part of the lease that I am not allowed to have a firearm in the apartment? Thank you in advance.
CONDUCT OF RESIDENT: Resident agrees to abide by all federal, State and municipal laws, ordinances, regulations
or orders (including but not limited to those pertaining to use of hazardous substances) as well as Owner’s Rules and
Regulations now in force and effect or which may be hereafter enacted. Resident agrees that Resident or Resident’s
guests or the Roommates or their respective guests shall not: (i) be loud, obnoxious, disorderly, boisterous, or
unlawful; (ii) disturb or threaten the rights, comfort, health, safety, or convenience of others (including Owner’s
agents) in or near the Community; display, discharge, or possess, a gun, knife, or other weapon in a way that may
threaten or alarm others or Roommates including but not limited to any pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, or other
weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind, knives of stated dimensions, razors, throwing stars, nun
chucks, and similar objects;
I read it the same way you do. Just don't possess or display it in a way that may threaten or alarm others.
Re: No Gun Apartment Lease?
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 3:58 pm
by The Annoyed Man
I would say that, barring their posting of a 30.06 sign, you may have a firearm in the building. The key wording is:
...shall not... display, discharge, or possess, a gun, knife, or other weapon in a way that may threaten or alarm others
You may move in. Just don't wave your gun around. You will not be prosecuted for a righteous shoot if it happens in the apartment complex, but it will likely alarm some, and "threaten" others who hate guns; and you may be evicted for those reasons. But you won't be breaking any law, so long as you follow the Texas CHL laws.
If you're from out of state, then the
Current laws as of September 1, 2009 (clean version) (PDF) is highly recommended reading.
Re: No Gun Apartment Lease?
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 4:00 pm
by CaptWoodrow10
HighHandicap wrote:I think the best thing to do would be to call a lawyer and get their take on it. I'd be pretty tempted to move on from a place like that since they're obvious intent is to be anti-gun. Have you looked at their physical location? Maybe they're a posted 30.06 and you can't carry there.
Edit:*** They may not be able to legally enforce their policy, but they can be a real pain in the butt until you can't wait to leave. Better safe than sorry.
The 30.06 issue was my first thought as well. Also, I believe that the OP has just been given verbal notice as well. I would look into another complex if possible.
Re: No Gun Apartment Lease?
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 4:10 pm
by Scire.Factor
CaptWoodrow10 wrote:HighHandicap wrote:I think the best thing to do would be to call a lawyer and get their take on it. I'd be pretty tempted to move on from a place like that since they're obvious intent is to be anti-gun. Have you looked at their physical location? Maybe they're a posted 30.06 and you can't carry there.
Edit:*** They may not be able to legally enforce their policy, but they can be a real pain in the butt until you can't wait to leave. Better safe than sorry.
The 30.06 issue was my first thought as well. Also, I believe that the OP has just been given verbal notice as well. I would look into another complex if possible.
The problem is that out of all the apartment complexes I have called in the area, only 1/2 are gun friendly. I am really surprised by all of this.
The lady on the phone said, "we do not allow guns, because we follow what the lease says."
Re: No Gun Apartment Lease?
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 4:20 pm
by E.Marquez
It would seem the best idea yet is contact a lawyer. But aside from that, It looks like the worst case (assuming your not going to be brandishing the weapon scaring or threatening others as a habit) is,, that you possess your weapon in a normal low key way,, and if the day comes you have to engage a BG.. You move after you get the eviction notice. A potential pain, for sure, but really.. What are the chances you'll have to draw and or shoot someone?
If it happens and the worst is you move to a new apartment. Seems like a small risk for a smaller possibility.
Re: No Gun Apartment Lease?
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 4:29 pm
by CaptWoodrow10
bronco78 wrote:It would seem the best idea yet is contact a lawyer. But aside from that, It looks like the worst case (assuming your not going to be brandishing the weapon scaring or threatening others as a habit) is,, that you possess your weapon in a normal low key way,, and if the day comes you have to engage a BG.. You move after you get the eviction notice. A potential pain, for sure, but really.. What are the chances you'll have to draw and or shoot someone?
If it happens and the worst is you move to a new apartment. Seems like a small risk for a smaller possibility.
Given that the 'verbal notice' I mentioned seems to not be legitimate given the wording the office worker used. But as always, IANAL, so don't take my word for anything more than the hot air it is.
Re: No Gun Apartment Lease?
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 4:39 pm
by KD5NRH
bronco78 wrote:and if the day comes you have to engage a BG.. You move after you get the eviction notice. A potential pain, for sure, but really..
Especially with all the TV stations and radio talk show hosts you'd have to call about the "punish the victim" mentality of the complex.
Re: No Gun Apartment Lease?
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 5:00 pm
by Drewthetexan
Seems violating your lease is a lot easier to clean up than not having a firearm and needing it. Just be mindful of your neighbors, and consider what's beyond the walls of your apartment when thinking about defense - if it ever came to it.
Re: No Gun Apartment Lease?
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 5:06 pm
by Charles L. Cotton
Scire.Factor wrote:CaptWoodrow10 wrote:HighHandicap wrote:I think the best thing to do would be to call a lawyer and get their take on it. I'd be pretty tempted to move on from a place like that since they're obvious intent is to be anti-gun. Have you looked at their physical location? Maybe they're a posted 30.06 and you can't carry there.
Edit:*** They may not be able to legally enforce their policy, but they can be a real pain in the butt until you can't wait to leave. Better safe than sorry.
The 30.06 issue was my first thought as well. Also, I believe that the OP has just been given verbal notice as well. I would look into another complex if possible.
The problem is that out of all the apartment complexes I have called in the area, only 1/2 are gun friendly. I am really surprised by all of this.
The lady on the phone said, "we do not allow guns, because we follow what the lease says."
I recommend never asking this question. Just read the lease and act in accordance with the terms thereof.
Chas.
Re: No Gun Apartment Lease?
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 5:11 pm
by OldCannon
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
I recommend never asking this question. Just read the lease and act in accordance with the terms thereof.
Chas.
Never make a mountain out of a molehill. Don't ask and follow the terms of the least. Showing guns to strangers makes for scared bunnies, and you never know which way those crazy things will run.
Re: No Gun Apartment Lease?
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 5:19 pm
by C-dub
Can someone even prohibit me from possessing a firearm in my residence here in Texas? I thought that matter had already been settled. They can prevent you from carrying in their offices and other buildings, but your residence?
Re: No Gun Apartment Lease?
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 6:04 pm
by hirundo82
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
I recommend never asking this question. Just read the lease and act in accordance with the terms thereof.
Chas.
Exactly my feelings.
The language posted sounds like the standard Texas Apartment Association rental agreement. I signed the same thing when I moved into my apartment. I read it carefully to make sure there wasn't a no-guns clause, but
I did not ask whether they have a "No Guns" policy. Asking is just giving them a chance to say no (probably the most likely outcome from a perceived liability standpoint).
A better tactic in the future would be to ask them to fax you the rental agreement so you can read it, and see if it has language specifically prohibiting guns.