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So my Fiance and I took our dog to a local park the other day. We were just relaxing, had our dog on a leash. A BUNCH (at least 12) of other dogs came running at us to visit our dog. No problem, I saw that some dogs weren't on a leash. Most were cool, just wanted to play and lick us. Some were extremely aggressive and wouldn't stop knocking my Fiance over, so I removed them and attempted to find their owner, which no one claimed to be... so I pulled out the cell and said I was calling animal control. Someone finally claimed the little b@sturds. I asked him if he would please try to keep him away a little, he had scratched my Fiance and it won't listen.

So what's he do, looks me dead in the eye and lets go of the dog. It runs directly back at my Fiance. Hits her square in the chest and knocks her over. I go running after it and before I get there it clamps on to my dog and starts to attack it. I had my Kimber, but saw no need to shoot the dog. I kicked it (possibly not humane, but it let go). My dog wasn't hurt, just scared. The dog didn't seem to he intent on hurting my Fiance, just overly anxious to play. We quickly decided to leave and the dog still wouldn't get away. I doused it with bitter apple (a foul tasting deterrent spray used to keep dogs from chewing on stuff, it was in my hand and I know my dog hats the stuff) it worked fine, the dog immediately left us alone. The owner got irritated and started yelling about me spraying his dog with something. We had a few choice words and ended with me saying something to the nature of "Sir, I know how you feel. Your dog is fine it was just a deterrent spray. If you don't step back from me I will have you arrested", Or something to that nature, I kinda forget exactly what it was.

Does anyone know what the laws are on using force against a dog? I'd hate to needlessly injure one, but this was rediculous. Can I pepper-spray one that is biting? And are deadly-force laws the same as with a person? I'm not too sure how to react to these type of situations where the dog isn't necessarily trying to injur, but is doing just that as he 'plays'. I know I'd put him down if he were seriously attacking a member of my family (dog included), but what options do I have if I just can't get him off? Any help would be appreciated.

WOW, I just read my post and... wow. It's so late right now that it doesn't look like I could make a coherent though. Sorry for it being so poorly written and for all the gramatical errors... next time I'll wait until morning so it doesn't look so bad.

agdude wrote:WOW, I just read my post and... wow. It's so late right now that it doesn't look like I could make a coherent though.

Been there, done that, agdude. Don't worry about it.

I'll hold off on my comments until you come back and clarify your initial post (not that I think you did anything wrong). I trust others will do the same.

Kevin

Here is a thread with a very similar discussion, you may find it helpful: http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... php?t=2832

[quote="agdude"]
So what's he do, looks me dead in the eye and lets go of the dog. It runs directly back at my Fiance. Hits her square in the chest and knocks her over.

This changes the situation from an unfriendly discussion to the use of force that could cause serious injury. He intentionally allowed the dog to jump on a person. If the dog is large enough to knock the person down it does not matter if the dog just wanted to play or if it was in the attack mode.

Some people just don't get it. Not everyone should be allowed to have animals. Especially irresponsible people.

I was out walking my dog after dinner one night a few years ago. My neighbor at the time (6 doors down), was out in his yard with his two dogs off leash. I was on the oppositie side of the street and my dog was on a leash.
When his dogs saw us, both came at us snarling and at a dead run. I put my hand on the grip of my 357 mag snub that was in my pocket, and in a very loud and aggressive voice said NO! Both dogs slowed down and stopped snarling. Then the owner calls them back and apologizes.
I told him that if he wanted his dogs to stay healthy, he'd get a tie-off or keep them in the fenced back yard. Cars are always speeding down the street don't ya know.

Lethal force was definitely forthcoming if they'd continued their charge. I've been charged by a single agressive dog more than once and was able to control it without injury to myself or the dog but not two and I know what two dogs are capable of.
My dog is my best friend, a part of this family, and will be defended as such.

agdude wrote:WOW, I just read my post and... wow. It's so late right now that it doesn't look like I could make a coherent though. Sorry for it being so poorly written and for all the gramatical errors... next time I'll wait until morning so it doesn't look so bad.

It read fine to me.

I have mixed feelings on this issue. The other dog owner is a bully, plain and simple. You have a right to be in the park and not be accosted by dogs, especially one intentionally set loose by its owner. Most places have leash laws, and it is the obligation of other owners to keep thier pets under control.

You could have called animal control or the police and had the person cited.

That said, we should choose carefully on which hills we are prepared to die. My ego would want me stand my ground in such a situation. After all, my rights....his obligations. However, forcing my rights in this situation and possibly causing the incident to escalate is not a wise choice.

If you felt harm was immminent then you should defend yourself against the dog in whatever manner you believe best. Removing yourself from the area before it gets to that point is better, IMO.

Just food for thought.

I wouldn't hesitate to spray a dog if I thought the dog was about to attack me or a family member.

Dogs are very fast, and running from them is almost pointless.

IF the guy intentionally released the dog to go for your wife its serious.
I would have called the police after spraying the dog.

i love animals but i can't stand owners that are irresponsible.

i suggest getting a can of FOX 5.3 or Bear spray, and spraying any dogs that attack you. maybe even the owner if they are going to be jerks.

could letting go of the dog to allow it to attack you be considered deadly force?? i mean the dog could knock you down and inflict a nasty bite before you know it. and who knows if it has rabies.
id say any attacking dogs not under control of their owners are fair game.

i say OC it and if that don't work its time to start thinking about clearing leather while you or someone else calls 911.

I think this is a wonderful subject, thank you for bringing it up.

The straw that broke the camel's back for me was 2 full grown boxers that seemed to come out of nowhere and pin me against my garage door. I was mowing the lawn and had the garage door down, front door locked, and car doors locked. I was unarmed with the exception of a lawnmower. Upon realizing that I was about to be eaten I let go of the safety handle which exhausted that as a weapon!

The owner of the two dogs zipped down the street on his four wheeler and retrieved his animals and apologized. He was a nice guy considering my attitude and the fact that I would have killed his dogs if I had the means. I promised him that it would never happen again. For the next six months I mowed the yard with a 12 gauge discreetly sitting in my garage.

I own dogs and love them dearly...but could not blame someone at all for controlling them when I failed to do so.

It was on this day that I decided not be to held hostage by any man or animal ever again, especially in my own front yard I am glad that I received this lesson without bloodshed from me or the dogs. I had a CHL license in my wallet for about 8 years before I decided to take it seriously. I am glad it didn't cost my life or the life of a loved one.
Jason

I think you did the right thing. I would have called the police and had him cited. It sounds like he's got a friendly dog that just needs obedience training. Due to his irresponsiblility, he could cause his dog to be shot or otherwise harmed by its obnoxious behavior.
If a dog attacked me, a relative, or even one of my own pets (which are family), then I would not hesitate to do what would be necessary for defense.
The apple spray sounds like the perfect idea for the situation you shared with us. It isn't harmful, just aversive to them. Where did you get it?

PetSmart sell the bitter apple in spray bottles.

FYI, I saw an episode of COPS where a woman intentionally let her rotweiler out of the house knowing it would attack the animal control officer at the scene. She was charged with assault with a deadly weapon.

Got it at petsmart and transfered it to a smaller bottle