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If you encounter a killing in progress and participating in it is dangerous to you (e.g. criminal has a weapon, etc.) but you can get away from it if you just turn around and run away? (Of course, you'd call the cops after you turn around.)

I saw a TV show w/ some friends and there's a BG shooting people in a mall. Friends and I are shooters and we discuss what'd we do in such situations. I told them I'd just run away even if I have guns on me and am a good enough shooter to likely take out the BG from some cover. There is no need to risk my life. The is only way I'd definitely shoot is if I've got a rifle and am out of the BG's range. Of course, when actually faced w/ such situations, who knows what I'd (or anybody would do, maybe getting irritated enough to try to shoot the BG.

I kind of remember (maybe my memory is wrong) that there was a CHL person trying to stop a court house shooter and got killed, happening around 2003-2007 in Texas?

Anyway, I've just wondering what you'd do. I'd like to see if this board feels in similar way to what my friends and I think (3 taking my position and 1 is for justice).

First,
You may be legally justified to engage and terminate the threat using your deadly force. However, the law does not require you to do so. What I will do depends on the situation and whether my intervention will help or not. As per situation. If I am the target or anyone in my company, I for sure will act. If There is clear advantage for me to act, I will act.

"Greater love hath no man than to lay down his life for others"

I would have to live with killing someone, but to me that is easier than living with the thought of being able to do something and not doing so.

I just hope and pray I don't have to make that choice.

j1132s wrote:I told them I'd just run away even if I have guns on me and am a good enough shooter to likely take out the BG from some cover. There is no need to risk my life.

I voted yes. If the vic was your brother, sister, mother, father, spouse, son, or daughter and I happen to be the only one around who could stop them from being killed, would you want me to run away?

A qualified "Yes." If it were a suicide mission, then no, I would not shoot. I won't casually throw away my life for a total stranger as long as I have a family that needs me to come home to them each day. OTH, if I had a reasonable chance of success, then yes, I would shoot. It doesn't have to be 100% odds, just a reasonable chance. Even so, a pistol is not the ideal weapon with which to engage an active shooter. Give me a rifle and I'm a happy camper. Unfortunately, while walking around with an AR15 strapped to your back may be legal, it seems ill-advised in most situations I am likely to find myself in, which is why I carry a concealed pistol in the first place instead.

I voted yes.

A CHL may not force us to protect the unarmed public, but a civil society requires us to defend each other.

Kevinf2349 wrote:"Greater love hath no man than to lay down his life for others"

I would have to live with killing someone, but to me that is easier than living with the thought of being able to do something and not doing so.

I just hope and pray I don't have to make that choice.

+ 1,000

I could never live with myself if I had the chance to prevent innocent deaths and did nothing, even if acting risked my own life.

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

I would do what I could safely.

The Annoyed Man wrote:A qualified "Yes." If it were a suicide mission, then no, I would not shoot. I won't casually throw away my life for a total stranger as long as I have a family that needs me to come home to them each day.

Calculated risks, some chose to go into burning buildings to save lives and property of strangers. Believe me, it's not the money. But there is something to being able to do something that others may not be able to do by training or heart; and then to not do it would burn a hole in the middle of my spirit. Yes, if I could I would.

Without a doubt YES. I have done it before and I will do it again. There is no way I could live with myself if someone died and I could have prevented it

Yes - but then again I'm under a different set of guidelines than most you.

If I was in my pre LEO days I still think I would.

My vote was YES. What if I was there and it was your wife, son, daughter etc. I would want anyone with the know how and skills to take the BG out. If it were my family in trouble, I would sure like some one to help them out, whether they knew them or not.
A lot depends on the situation. If they are getting robbed with no violence, then I will be an expert witness. If there is violence like shooting or stabbing, you don't know if you will be next. So I would consider MY life in danger at the same time and act accordingly.

Tim

Dragonfighter wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:A qualified "Yes." If it were a suicide mission, then no, I would not shoot. I won't casually throw away my life for a total stranger as long as I have a family that needs me to come home to them each day.

Calculated risks, some chose to go into burning buildings to save lives and property of strangers. Believe me, it's not the money. But there is something to being able to do something that others may not be able to do by training or heart; and then to not do it would burn a hole in the middle of my spirit. Yes, if I could I would.

I think we're saying the same thing. That's why I said "a reasonable chance of success." It doesn't have to be 100% in my favor, but there has to be some possibility of success. I am not an LEO, and I am not a firefighter, and I don't claim to be either of those things. But IF I could help, I would. The calculation is in the IF, and as the odds increase that helping will result in my own death and not much else, then my willingness to help decreases proportionally.

Then there is the question of skill level and competence. Someone without proper training, or without enough physical capacity, can actually get in the way of the efforts of more qualified people. I'm a fat older man who is a competent (but not great) shot at the range when nobody is shooting back, and I have some physical limitations. I've never had any "tactical" training. In fact, one of the reasons (not the only reason, but one of them) I obtained my CHL was because I am increasingly physically unable to defend myself by any other means.

I'm not saying this to put a damper on this particular thread, but we've had similar discussions to this in the past. Opinions tend to range from "I am under no moral obligation to a total stranger and would only shoot to protect me and mine," to "I am Ninja!" I personally believe that society functions precisely because we all look out for one another when we can. I will, and have on many occasions, ministered to the chronically homeless. But I will not sell my house out from under my family in order to pay for housing a chronically homeless person — because A) I have a family responsibility; and B) a chronically homeless person will just be homeless again soon enough, and my house will have been needlessly sacrificed. Similarly, I would help a victim of violence to the extent that I am able, but I will not sacrifice my own life on that principle when there is very little possibility of success — because A) I have a family responsibility; and B) the victim is going to die anyway.

Others may view things differently, and that is fine; and I am not proselytizing here, just trying to explain how my mind and heart work... but as a follower of Christ, I am categorically unable to view the world and my place in it through any other lens. I believe that the Lord demands that I be willing to help the poor, downtrodden, and oppressed to the extent that I am able. It is equally true (for me) that the Lord gave me my wife and son and expects me to be their husband/father for as long as I am able, or until He calls me home. God also expects me to be a good steward of everything that He has given me, including my very life.

So that is the calculator through which I would likely process any shoot/don't shoot decision.

j1132s wrote:I kind of remember (maybe my memory is wrong) that there was a CHL person trying to stop a court house shooter and got killed, happening around 2003-2007 in Texas?

Anyway, I've just wondering what you'd do. I'd like to see if this board feels in similar way to what my friends and I think (3 taking my position and 1 is for justice).

This took place in Tyler. The CHL was killed because the perp was wearing body armor and a flak vest. The CHL got so caught up in 'center of mass' that he kept shooting even when it became obvious that he wasn't having any success. The perp shot him when he stopped to reload. A single, well aimed head shot by the CHL would have ended it with much better results.

KC5AV wrote: This took place in Tyler. The CHL was killed because the perp was wearing body armor and a flak vest. The CHL got so caught up in 'center of mass' that he kept shooting even when it became obvious that he wasn't having any success. The perp shot him when he stopped to reload. A single, well aimed head shot by the CHL would have ended it with much better results.

Something to keep in mind in general and for those scenarios where the perp is obviously well prepared.