National concealed carry reciprocity

[blue]

Ref:National concealed carry reciprocity S845 HR2647 amendment 1618. (GOA alert)

Sounds good, like a Drivers License - good in all states. BUT:

In the recent past Chicago did try to get access to the federal firearm records so they could do their own 'tracing'. It was blocked thankfully.
Since Texas gives out CHL info to LEO and DA's and any other legals:
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--- What is stopping ALL of the Private CHL information of Texas citizens being given to say Chicago, New York, Etc. ????---

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They are certainly NOT above using that information against all of us in many ways- Leaked to newspapers, credit agencys etc.

We did get the Texas records closed to the public for just this very thing happening a few years back But What protects us from out of state 'Attacks' ????????

Regards,
Blue

[Mithras61]

The primary problem I have with this is that it will start out being a requirement that all states recognize each others' CHLs. Next it will be expanded to include SOME Federal standards. Then the Federal standards will be expanded more so that it will become increasingly onerous to comply with them, and finally we will reach the stage where a CHL is such a problem to get that no one will want them.

That is if it doesn't become a de facto registration of handguns (if it isn't listed you can't carry it... even to the range) along the way so that most of the folks who should have one won't want to do so.

No, I'd rather that the 2A just be recognized as applying to States as well as the Feds and that the so called reasonable restrictions be done away with as the infringements that they are. I'd accept (hesitantly) weapons realistically defined as "crew served" as not being covered, but I'd argue that without the colonists having had ships of the line (or equivalents) and cannon, the Revolution would have been lost. Today's equivalent weapons would include aircraft, tanks, ships (cruisers & aircraft carriers), and more. Yes, I realize that it could potentially put WMD in the hands of those who shouldn't have them. I also recognize that laws against their transfer haven't done that great a job in assuring that those same folks DON'T get them (witness the "drug wars" in Mexico...).

[suthdj]

I have no problem with a national CHL as long as it does not change the individual states CHL rights and laws. In other words if you want it, you apply for it, if you only want the state level one then that is ok also, one should not negate the other or the reciprocity between states already arranged.

[ghostrider]

Isn't the 2nd Amendment our National CHL?
:-)


While on the surface the idea of 1 CHL valid in all states is very appealing, I too would be concerned about it being used as a way to eventually eliminate concealed carry - not all at once, but a bit at a time as Mithras61 points out.

[C-dub]

I'm not sure this would be a bad idea. Afterall, Princessa Sotomayor has already stated that the 2A is not incorporated and it already states that this right shall not be infringed. So, I'm just wondering how much worse they could legally make it.

[Mithras61]

I'm not sure this would be a bad idea. Afterall, Princessa Sotomayor has already stated that the 2A is not incorporated and it already states that this right shall not be infringed. So, I'm just wondering how much worse they could legally make it.

Quite a bit, actually. If the SCOTUS rules that it is NOT incorporated, then expect to start seeing restrictive legislation entered in all the states that already have burdensome legislation in place, and expect to see more of the garbage like we've seen out of Dallas' state legislator in the last couple sessions. I remember what it was like when I was young and states like MI & WI used to have laws against concealed carry and open carry was considered disturbing the peace...

[boomerang]

If CA and MA aren't required to honor the Second Amendment rights of Texans then it's obvious TX is not required to recognize the First, Fourth and Fifth Amendment rights of CA and MA citizens, including Feinstein and Kennedy.

[jimlongley]

If CA and MA aren't required to honor the Second Amendment rights of Texans then it's obvious TX is not required to recognize the First, Fourth and Fifth Amendment rights of CA and MA citizens, including Feinstein and Kennedy.

Or drivers' licenses. Full faith and credit should be reciprocal.

[shootthesheet]

I see little gain in this, for now, except for friendly and mostly friendly CCW states. Places that want to stop CCW will simply put in more restrictions or make it so crazy CCW would be impossible. That said, I no longer see this as an "in" for the feds. I do expect the 2A to be incorperated thru the 14th. That does not mean we will see any real change until we go after at least one major city in each state and make them pay big for denying citizens of this civil right.

The real question I have is how far the SCOTUS will go. They should do away with all restrictions from any state. That would include the Texas Constitution where the state unconstitutionally (2A) controls the wearing of arms. Anything less is short of restoring our rights in this state. Overall, no local or state "gun law" should be held as constitutional. Punishments exist for crime and crime should be punished. The days of punishing the innocent for the crimes of the guilty could end with this decision if they do it correctly. Murder is illegal; robbery is illegal and so on.

We should not only insist our CHL is recognized fully in every state now but begin to publicly state our desire that our FULL rights are returned to us thru incorporation that will make NCCR a needless relic of the bad old days. It is time we stop being content with half-measures and insist our elected servants stop restricting our civil rights.

[Douva]

This is what I just posted on the Students for Concealed Carry on Campus message board:

I'm very wary of the proposed legislation that would force all shall-issue and may-issue states to honor all out-of-state licenses. I doubt it will pass, but if it did, I have little doubt that federal regulation (standardization) of concealed carry laws would follow shortly thereafter.

Proponents argue that it's too confusing having a patchwork of states that do and don't honor certain licenses. Too be honest, I'm not at all confused about which states allow me to carry with my Texas CHL; however, I do sometimes have trouble remembering WHERE each state allows me to carry (i.e., if I'm traveling from Texas to Virginia, in which states can I carry concealed in a restaurant?). Would standardization be the next logical step? If so, by whose standards?

Once CHLs transcend state lines (beyond simple reciprocity), the federal government gains the right to step in and start regulating licensing requirements, etc., just like they've done with driver's licenses via the Real ID Act.

Also, if states that don't allow concealed carry at all are exempt from the law, what's to prevent states like New York and California from simply repealing their may-issue concealed carry laws and becoming "right denied" states? This legislation could inadvertently end up screwing the citizens of those states who have gone to great lengths to obtain concealed carry permits.

A friend responded by pointing out that the Virginia Gun Owners Coalition just sent supporters this email alert, which the National Association for Gun Rights put out a few days ago:

http://dl.zewola.com/fs/distribution:wl ... 9aab0fb444" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also, it's worth noting that the Violence Policy Center just put out this absurd "study," as a response to the proposed national reciprocity amendment. John Pierce wrote THIS excellent rebuttal to the "study," for the Minneapolis Gun Rights Examiner.

[Rex B]

I just used Visible Vote to write a short email to all my senators and congressmen at one shot.
Otherwise I'd have to fill out a web form on each of their web pages.

If you are using an iPhone you need to get this app.
I think you can also do it from their webpage.

http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... te#p281248" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[joe817]

Here is the page from the Congressional Record from the Senate introducing the bill on the floor of the Senate:

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin ... sition=all" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think it would help to read the text and understand its full implications, and then continue the debate. Just my 2 cents worth.

[Rex B]

I clicked on that link, and it's trying to save a cgi file as a PDF?

Am I missing something here?

[joe817]

I clicked on that link, and it's trying to save a cgi file as a PDF?

Am I missing something here?

I just clicked on the link, and it took me right there. Hmmmmmm. It is a .pdf file though