New to CHL, some random questions
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New to CHL, some random questions
Since this is my first post I guess I'll say a little about myself. I'm 21, married, and working towards my EE degree. I gather from what I've read that makes me one of the younger people here. Been hooked on guns since I was 8 and got my first BB gun. I've always been interested in competitive shooting (though never really got into many competitions) and of course gun rights. I've spent a few hours of each of the last couple nights reading through old posts trying to learn as much as possible from all the great people here.
Tomorrow I take the CHL class which is being put on by a pro-gun group on campus called Students for the Second Amendment. My plan was to take the class to get it out of the way and then save up the $140 for the application fee later on when I got the money, but after telling my parents I signed up, they very graciously gave me $140 in cash. Neither are CHL people or even own any guns, but they've always supported my hobbies. They're not wealthy people either, so I was very thankful. Anyway, I have even more excitement towards tomorrow's class knowing that I can send in my application immediately upon completion. I have no idea how I'm going to be able to stand the wait. Maybe I'll give DPS a call every day to check the status until I get my license!
Now for some random questions I have:
1) If I'm a passenger (say my wife or a friend is driving) in a car that gets pulled over and I'm carrying, do I have to present my CHL license? Or, would I only have to inform the officer of my gun and hand over my license if I was personally asked for my ID?
2) If I am travelling with a friend, can I leave my gun in their car (such as a place with a 30.06 sign posted) so long as the car is locked and the gun is not in plain view?
3) I live in an apartment complex and was wondering to what extent I could carry my handgun without a license on the property? I know having the gun concealed or not in my apartment would be ok, but if I take the dogs out on a walk at night, would I be able to take my gun without a license? Initially I would think "no", but included in the lease is the right to use other facilities like the swimming pool, tennis and racquetball courts, fitness center, etc. I'm paying for the right to use those, so does that mean I have the right to take my gun to those places, or even just walk around in the parking lot with it? If the answer to all this is "no", could I at least take my gun out to my car in response to the alarm going off and/or seeing some punks messing with it? If I understand this correctly, Texas authorizes the use of deadly force to stop a burglery or the attempt of it (among a few other situations). Would having the right to use deadly force imply being able to carry a gun?
4) I am 5'8" and around 140lbs, so I've got a pretty small frame to work with as far as concealment goes. My carry gun (and only handgun as of now) will be a Steyr M9. It's about the size of a Glock 19 and even looks a little like one too (was designed by a former engineer for Glock that was hired by Steyr). Any suggestions for holsters? I normally wear t-shirts and shorts since the weather is nice most of the year. I've been reading up on the Smart Carry holsters and they look very promising. Anyone with personal experience? I've also been stocking my gun in my waistband behind my back which I find pretty comfortable and very concealed, but sitting down is a little less comfortable and it's more likely to stick out. My only reservation to the Smart Carry is that it seems a little awkward being that the gun rests right on top of your uh... privates. I'm sure that I'd get over it pretty fast though.
That's about all for now, but I know I had more as I have been sitting and thinking about concealed carry a lot lately. I can't wait to take the course tomorrow. I even went to the shooting range today to practice for the proficiency test! It's an all day class from 8am to 9pm, so I better get to sleep. Thanks for all the information that has been contributed so far (I still have many more hours to spend reading old posts) and any help you can offer with my questions. Until then, I'll be eyeing the entrance of every place I go to looking to 30.06 signs!
Tomorrow I take the CHL class which is being put on by a pro-gun group on campus called Students for the Second Amendment. My plan was to take the class to get it out of the way and then save up the $140 for the application fee later on when I got the money, but after telling my parents I signed up, they very graciously gave me $140 in cash. Neither are CHL people or even own any guns, but they've always supported my hobbies. They're not wealthy people either, so I was very thankful. Anyway, I have even more excitement towards tomorrow's class knowing that I can send in my application immediately upon completion. I have no idea how I'm going to be able to stand the wait. Maybe I'll give DPS a call every day to check the status until I get my license!
Now for some random questions I have:
1) If I'm a passenger (say my wife or a friend is driving) in a car that gets pulled over and I'm carrying, do I have to present my CHL license? Or, would I only have to inform the officer of my gun and hand over my license if I was personally asked for my ID?
2) If I am travelling with a friend, can I leave my gun in their car (such as a place with a 30.06 sign posted) so long as the car is locked and the gun is not in plain view?
3) I live in an apartment complex and was wondering to what extent I could carry my handgun without a license on the property? I know having the gun concealed or not in my apartment would be ok, but if I take the dogs out on a walk at night, would I be able to take my gun without a license? Initially I would think "no", but included in the lease is the right to use other facilities like the swimming pool, tennis and racquetball courts, fitness center, etc. I'm paying for the right to use those, so does that mean I have the right to take my gun to those places, or even just walk around in the parking lot with it? If the answer to all this is "no", could I at least take my gun out to my car in response to the alarm going off and/or seeing some punks messing with it? If I understand this correctly, Texas authorizes the use of deadly force to stop a burglery or the attempt of it (among a few other situations). Would having the right to use deadly force imply being able to carry a gun?
4) I am 5'8" and around 140lbs, so I've got a pretty small frame to work with as far as concealment goes. My carry gun (and only handgun as of now) will be a Steyr M9. It's about the size of a Glock 19 and even looks a little like one too (was designed by a former engineer for Glock that was hired by Steyr). Any suggestions for holsters? I normally wear t-shirts and shorts since the weather is nice most of the year. I've been reading up on the Smart Carry holsters and they look very promising. Anyone with personal experience? I've also been stocking my gun in my waistband behind my back which I find pretty comfortable and very concealed, but sitting down is a little less comfortable and it's more likely to stick out. My only reservation to the Smart Carry is that it seems a little awkward being that the gun rests right on top of your uh... privates. I'm sure that I'd get over it pretty fast though.
That's about all for now, but I know I had more as I have been sitting and thinking about concealed carry a lot lately. I can't wait to take the course tomorrow. I even went to the shooting range today to practice for the proficiency test! It's an all day class from 8am to 9pm, so I better get to sleep. Thanks for all the information that has been contributed so far (I still have many more hours to spend reading old posts) and any help you can offer with my questions. Until then, I'll be eyeing the entrance of every place I go to looking to 30.06 signs!
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Re: New to CHL, some random questions
You only have to present CHL when asked BY AN LEO for ID.Flatland2D wrote: 1) If I'm a passenger (say my wife or a friend is driving) in a car that gets pulled over and I'm carrying, do I have to present my CHL license? Or, would I only have to inform the officer of my gun and hand over my license if I was personally asked for my ID?
Yes - just don't forget it or they will be a test case for the "travelling law."Flatland2D wrote: 2) If I am travelling with a friend, can I leave my gun in their car (such as a place with a 30.06 sign posted) so long as the car is locked and the gun is not in plain view?
I'm not sure on this one, but I doubt it. Seems like the "man with a gun" calls would be an issue. It seems like you SHOULD be able to, but like I said, I doubt it's legal...thats just a gut feeling though. I defer to the others on here.Flatland2D wrote: 3) I live in an apartment complex and was wondering to what extent I could carry my handgun without a license on the property?
I've heard the smartcarry is great! I use a leather IWB hoslter (you can find pics in previous posts) by Milt Sparks and it works great with shorts and t-shirt (I'm also a student). For more comfort I use a leather OWB holster by Galco. Conceals well under a fleece, OK under a collared shirt.Flatland2D wrote: 4) I am 5'8" and around 140lbs, so I've got a pretty small frame to work with as far as concealment goes.
I would stray from just tucking a gun into your waistband...leaving the trigger exposed is not a great idea. If I HAD to do it like that I would not leave the chamber "hot" since I don't have a safety "switch" (though it does have 2 safeties) on my XD.
Welcome to the forum!
-nick
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. - Thomas Edison
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Nick looks like he covered it...
IMO, the Carrying at the Apartments would be subject to the Apartment Policy about the public areas that are shared with other tenants. Its going to be different then carrying on Property that you own... I think the key word here is OWN.... Once you step outside that apartment you are on a "public" property.
As always, if you carry take you CHL. Otherwise you are just like any other person with a gun.
Welcome to the forum.... Im still pretty new but there are some very knowledgable people on these boards....
Daniel
IMO, the Carrying at the Apartments would be subject to the Apartment Policy about the public areas that are shared with other tenants. Its going to be different then carrying on Property that you own... I think the key word here is OWN.... Once you step outside that apartment you are on a "public" property.
As always, if you carry take you CHL. Otherwise you are just like any other person with a gun.
Welcome to the forum.... Im still pretty new but there are some very knowledgable people on these boards....
Daniel
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Re: New to CHL, some random questions
Welcome to the forum. Yes, you are among the younger members we have, but there are others well under the half century mark. The wide spectrum of ages and experience here is another benefit of the forum.
Regards,
Chas.
Sorry, but no. The general prohibition on carrying handguns found in TPC 46.02 doesn't apply to your own property or property under your control. You're fine in your apartment, but not in the common areas that are not under your control. Right to access or use the common areas is different from the right to "control" the property.Flatland2D wrote:3) I live in an apartment complex and was wondering to what extent I could carry my handgun without a license on the property?
Regards,
Chas.
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Re: New to CHL, some random questions
Exactly the gentleman I had in mind when I said "defer to others"Charles L. Cotton wrote:Sorry, but no. The general prohibition on carrying handguns found in TPC 46.02 doesn't apply to your own property or property under your control. You're fine in your apartment, but not in the common areas that are not under your control. Right to access or use the common areas is different from the right to "control" the property.Flatland2D wrote:3) I live in an apartment complex and was wondering to what extent I could carry my handgun without a license on the property?
Regards,
Chas.
Also, as far as age on this forum, from someone who is still 6 months from even hitting 24, I can say that I have ALWAYS been treated with respect and made to feel like my comments and opnions were appreciated and welcome.
I know am extremely grateful for those "more experienced" on the forum to speak words of wisdom, but you will find that most if not all will usually listen to you as well!
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. - Thomas Edison
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Man, and I thought I got up early on a Sunday...
"Flatland2D" you received some good stuff here...Good luck on your class, I'm sure you'll do fine...
The organization (Students for the Second Amendment) that is sponsoring the class is a good group...I've heard about them off and on for a few years now, and have heard nothing but good about them...I'd hang out with them, but I don't think I'd pass for a "student"...
Let us know how it goes...
"Flatland2D" you received some good stuff here...Good luck on your class, I'm sure you'll do fine...
The organization (Students for the Second Amendment) that is sponsoring the class is a good group...I've heard about them off and on for a few years now, and have heard nothing but good about them...I'd hang out with them, but I don't think I'd pass for a "student"...
Let us know how it goes...
"Perseverance and Preparedness triumph over Procrastination and Paranoia every time.” -- Steve
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Can't top what has already been posted. Congratulations on going for your CHL. It certainly sounds like you have some very supportive parents. You said that they don't own guns, but have you tried to get them out to the range?
Welcome to the forum. You will fit right in here. I have yet to witness anyone being talked down to because of thier age.
Welcome to the forum. You will fit right in here. I have yet to witness anyone being talked down to because of thier age.
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Welcome to the forum.
I think all of your questions have been answered, As far as a method of carry, that is something that you will have to decide. What works for one may not work for you. Even a change in weapons can mean a different method. My primary carry is/was a Glock 21 carried in a OWB Don Hume @ 4 oclock. I recently picked up a SW1911sc, ordered the same type of holster for it. Had a problem with the grip safety stabbing me in the side. Have since ordered 2 additional styles to try.
Again welcome and good luck on your class and congrats on becomming a CHL.
There is a lot of wisdom here from young and not so young alike.
I think all of your questions have been answered, As far as a method of carry, that is something that you will have to decide. What works for one may not work for you. Even a change in weapons can mean a different method. My primary carry is/was a Glock 21 carried in a OWB Don Hume @ 4 oclock. I recently picked up a SW1911sc, ordered the same type of holster for it. Had a problem with the grip safety stabbing me in the side. Have since ordered 2 additional styles to try.
Again welcome and good luck on your class and congrats on becomming a CHL.
There is a lot of wisdom here from young and not so young alike.
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Sweet...somebody younger than me!
Regarding carry methods, I'm rather small myself (6'0" and 155) and I'm all about the SmartCarry. I'm able to fully conceal a full sized Walther P99 and spare magazine, even with my shirt tucked in. You can check their website (smartcarry.com) to look at pictures and read the FAQ. The creator carries a 1911 .45 in his, so yeah.
Welcome to the boards!
Regarding carry methods, I'm rather small myself (6'0" and 155) and I'm all about the SmartCarry. I'm able to fully conceal a full sized Walther P99 and spare magazine, even with my shirt tucked in. You can check their website (smartcarry.com) to look at pictures and read the FAQ. The creator carries a 1911 .45 in his, so yeah.
Welcome to the boards!
I am Jack's teen spirit.
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Welcome! Good luck in your class.....I hope that you are able to learn as much as I did in my first CHL course. Try to be a sponge! Take care...and I am also in the group that ranks below the "half century", though I don't feel like it on some mornings!
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Thanks for all the great info.
I completed my class tonight. The instructor will be mailing the certificates out tomorrow and I guessing I'll have it the day after. I need to get finger prints and passport photos. What's a good place to go to that does both? Will a local police department be able to do that, or the post office? I also started an application online, but didn't finish it and saved it. I got to the point where it asked me to pay the $140. The instructor said that if we completed the form online and get mailed the application packet, we must use the number they issued us and not the new number on the application packet we got in class. So, can I forget about what I filled out online and just use the number I got in class, or should I finish filling it out online? Would one be faster than the other?
Since I'm only 21, and I believe the instructor said something like once you turn 21 your prior record doesn't get taken into account (unless it's a felony) would that in any way speed up the process, since I have less background to check?
Just to double check a few things I was told in class. I couldn't remember exactly how it matched up with some things I've read. Continuing the random questions...
1) A 30.06 sign, even when posted at the entrance of a parking lot, will ONLY restrict you from carrying inside the building. The parking lot and walkways are still ok to carry, and your gun may be locked in your car when you go inside.
2) A business is REQUIRED to post a 51% sign by the comptroller.
Thanks again to all for their help. Hopefully in the next 60 days I will be able to carry concealed.
I completed my class tonight. The instructor will be mailing the certificates out tomorrow and I guessing I'll have it the day after. I need to get finger prints and passport photos. What's a good place to go to that does both? Will a local police department be able to do that, or the post office? I also started an application online, but didn't finish it and saved it. I got to the point where it asked me to pay the $140. The instructor said that if we completed the form online and get mailed the application packet, we must use the number they issued us and not the new number on the application packet we got in class. So, can I forget about what I filled out online and just use the number I got in class, or should I finish filling it out online? Would one be faster than the other?
Since I'm only 21, and I believe the instructor said something like once you turn 21 your prior record doesn't get taken into account (unless it's a felony) would that in any way speed up the process, since I have less background to check?
Just to double check a few things I was told in class. I couldn't remember exactly how it matched up with some things I've read. Continuing the random questions...
1) A 30.06 sign, even when posted at the entrance of a parking lot, will ONLY restrict you from carrying inside the building. The parking lot and walkways are still ok to carry, and your gun may be locked in your car when you go inside.
2) A business is REQUIRED to post a 51% sign by the comptroller.
Thanks again to all for their help. Hopefully in the next 60 days I will be able to carry concealed.
That would be incorrect. Everything beyond a proper 30.06 notice is off limits.Flatland2D wrote: Just to double check a few things I was told in class. I couldn't remember exactly how it matched up with some things I've read. Continuing the random questions...
1) A 30.06 sign, even when posted at the entrance of a parking lot, will ONLY restrict you from carrying inside the building. The parking lot and walkways are still ok to carry, and your gun may be locked in your car when you go inside.
They might be, but remember this when it comes to 51% signs:2) A business is REQUIRED to post a 51% sign by the comptroller.
- It's an offense to carry in a 51% establishment, whether there's a 51% sign or not.
- The lack of a sign is not a defense to prosecution.
- A 51% sign is completely different from a 30.06 sign, and it's not an offense to carry where a 51% sign is improperly posted in a non-51% establishment.
- The standard for an offense is that you "intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly" carried in a 51% establishment. "Recklessly" means "should have known better, but did it anyway".
- If you have any doubts at all, then it's a 51% establishment, no matter whether there are signs or not.
Congratulations on the class. Keep posting questions and reading, and the very knowledgeable folks here will fill in the blanks for you.
Kevin
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Hmm. I remember seeing the word "premises" when going over 30.06 signs, but can't find it in my handbook. Premises only defines buildings and not their parking lots and walkways. It was even a question on the test (that a 30.06 sign could not prohibit carry in a parking lot). Unless the instructor graded it wrong, I got it right. I specifically asked this question in class and got the same answer. Has this been changed? The handbook I have is 2003 - 2004 and the instructor mentioned their have been some changes, but forgot to mention what they were. Anyone know of the changes?
I see a definition of "premises" in 46.03 Places Weapons Prohibited. Maybe the instructor was thinking of that instead? I wish I could remember the exact wording of the test question though.
I don't think I'll worry much about the 51% thing. The only places I go to that serve alcohol are "normal" restaurants like Chili's, Logan's, etc. I couldn't imagine them ever being 51% locations.
I see a definition of "premises" in 46.03 Places Weapons Prohibited. Maybe the instructor was thinking of that instead? I wish I could remember the exact wording of the test question though.
I don't think I'll worry much about the 51% thing. The only places I go to that serve alcohol are "normal" restaurants like Chili's, Logan's, etc. I couldn't imagine them ever being 51% locations.
I'll let Charles and others wade in on this, but here's what the law says:Flatland2D wrote:Hmm. I remember seeing the word "premises" when going over 30.06 signs, but can't find it in my handbook. Premises only defines buildings and not their parking lots and walkways. It was even a question on the test (that a 30.06 sign could not prohibit carry in a parking lot).
§ 30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and
(2) received notice that:
(A) entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden; or
(B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was forbidden and failed to depart.
PC 30.06 has nothing to do with "premises", just "property". PC 46.03 and 46.035 use the term "premises", and define it to mean buildings, excluding parking lots, sidewalks, etc.
Kevin