Same ole Arguments...

[PetrucciFan]

....I just saw this on the front page of cnn.com. Nothing "newsworthy" but it's still interesting to see how common sense just completely skips over some people..

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/14/campus.guns/index.html

[texasmr2]

"The other side of that, I shoot everybody with a gun who doesn't have a uniform on and I then I end up shooting somebody who was a citizen with a carry permit," Ferrara said.

And he will also end up shooting an undercover officer with that mentality, what a bonehead imo. Also it is most likely very easy to tell the good guy from the bad guy by who is the person pointing the gun at HIM!

[locknload]

He also said that there are practical concerns from a law enforcement perspective: If you're responding to the scene of a shooting, how do you sort out who is the bad guy and who is the heroic student with a permit?

Easy Answer: Given CHL carry on campus is permitted, by the time he arrives, the good guy is still standing and the bad guy is the one rolling around on the ground with the bullet in him, hopefully, and all the others standing around gawking, and complaining about how dangerous guns are, get to live another day.

What a dimwit!

OK, all of that aside, here's a serious question that I've had for awhile and have always been reluctant to ask, because I didn't want to hurt feelings of LEO's who might work at schools off-time, etc. I happen to like cops. I can never think of a time, when a Police Officer did me wrong in any way. Thus, my hesitation to bring this up, yet it is a question I've had for some time.

Background assumptions: Sometimes, we see Dr.'s in the military, because they can't make it in civilian practice; we see nurses take school nursing positions, because of burn-out or other reasons; we see pilots become dispatchers, because they can no longer get a medical; we see professionals begin to teach their profession, because they can no longer make it in the workplace - you get the drift. It's a huge generalization, but it's seen every day, too.

Now, can one safely make the assumption that a school cop can't get a job anywhere else? Could this be the scenario for the college Police Chief in this story? Would his attitude, expressed in this story, betray the reasons for his current employment position? If so, why would we even listen to him in the first place?

[srothstein]

My first take when i read his comments was that he needed to get out of law enforcement. You can tell the good guy from the bad because when you arrive and yell "Drop the gun" the good guy obeys. You then handcuff anyone who does drop it and shoot anyone who doesn't (and doesn't yell back some identifying comment like "cove rhim and I am lowering mine"). After you get everyone secured, you can sort out who is the good or bad guy. You can't awlays use the good guy is the one standing because sometimes the bad guy is quicker on the draw or a better shot.

On the comment about school cops, it kind of depends on who you ask. Sometimes, they take the job because they retired from another agency. Sometimes they are trying to break into the field and cannot get on a large department. Sometimes they really do prefer the small agency or campus. A lot of larger departments have a kind of attitude of "if you are not part of them, you are not a real police officer or could not get hired by a good agency. We had one of our officers retire a couple months ago and join Texas State's police department. He could probably have gone anywhere, but liked the idea of a state pension now plus a teacher's pension again in a few years. I have considered a couple college departments for the other main benefit - my kids going to college free. Trying to pay for two next year and it woul about double my spending money if I did work for a college that let them go free.

But to show you how some work, NE School District in San Antonio decided that they needed "real" police on campus back int he mid 90's. They did away with over half their department (the ones assigned to stay on campus) and hired all off duty San Antonio PD officers as campus police. They thought the kids would be more respectful to SAPD than the campus officers.

[seamusTX]

Now, can one safely make the assumption that a school cop can't get a job anywhere else? Could this be the scenario for the college Police Chief in this story? Would his attitude, expressed in this story, betray the reasons for his current employment position? If so, why would we even listen to him in the first place?

I would say No. In the first place, ISD and college police have the same licensing as city and state police (as I understand it).

If an officer can't cut it in a regular police force for some reason, he's not going to last long anywhere.

I can think of some good reasons for a competent officer to work for a school:

• The hours are regular (some officers are single parents).
• School police deal with a small, relatively stable popuation and can get to know the kids. Some officers might feel that gives them an opportunity to be a good influence.
• It beats driving around and writing traffic tickets all day.
• The benefits are usually good. They can buy into the state pension system.
• As licensed LEOs, they can work for private customers when they want to.

- Jim

[texasmr2]

I can think of some good reasons for a competent officer to work for a school:

• The hours are regular (some officers are single parents).
• School police deal with a small, relatively stable popuation and can get to know the kids. Some officers might feel that gives them an opportunity to be a good influence.
• It beats driving around and writing traffic tickets all day.
• The benefits are usually good. They can buy into the state pension system.
• As licensed LEOs, they can work for private customers when they want to.

- Jim

Excellent post !

[shootthesheet]

Elitism and ignorance.

[Liko81]

Now, can one safely make the assumption that a school cop can't get a job anywhere else? Could this be the scenario for the college Police Chief in this story? Would his attitude, expressed in this story, betray the reasons for his current employment position? If so, why would we even listen to him in the first place?

I would say No. In the first place, ISD and college police have the same licensing as city and state police (as I understand it).

If an officer can't cut it in a regular police force for some reason, he's not going to last long anywhere.

I can think of some good reasons for a competent officer to work for a school:

• The hours are regular (some officers are single parents).
• School police deal with a small, relatively stable popuation and can get to know the kids. Some officers might feel that gives them an opportunity to be a good influence.
• It beats driving around and writing traffic tickets all day.
• The benefits are usually good. They can buy into the state pension system.
• As licensed LEOs, they can work for private customers when they want to.

- Jim

Not sure about anywhere else, but the Texas Tech Police Department is state-administered. The cops on the Tech campus don't answer to the city or county, and if they arrest or ticket you for something you have to take care of it at the county level, not city. I'd think the Tech cops have more power, and thus more responsibility, than the LPD.

[seamusTX]

The only force that I know anything about is the Galveston ISD police. They answer to the district superintendent.

- Jim

[srothstein]

Each police force answers solely to the administrative body for the host and to TCLEOSE. City departments only answer to the city council/mayor/manager, school police departments only answer to the school board, etc. And all police departments have almost the exact same powers. The only difference for more powers is that state departments (not state schools, but things like TABC, DPS, TPW, AG, TDI) have statewide jurisdiction and can write traffic tickets anywhere in the state. County, city, and school police can only enforce most traffic laws in the county they are in or in the jurisdiction itself.