My First Experience (Airline Travel with Firearm)

[AggieMM]

With this being my first airline trip with a firearm, I did my due diligence, printing out the TSA and airline firearm policies, and reading many forums (including this one). Well, I decided to take my Kel-Tec P3AT along for the ride. Here is my story:

Departure – Austin, Texas

Being my first experience, I wasn’t sure if I had to wait in main line, or if I could still use the express check-in process. I asked the first airline representative I found that very question, and she first asked me “Is this for checked luggage, or are you going on the plane armed?� Well, that was an odd question to ask, but I informed her that I was checking the firearm. She instructed me to go to the main line.

While waiting in line, she returned and mentioned that she got the “white form� from behind the counter, that I could use the express check-in process, and then she’d walk me to the counter. I was very thankful, as the main line hadn’t moved at all.

Once at the counter, I went through the process of showing the attendant that the firearm was unloaded. I used a “center-of-mass� lock box, and had both mags (unloaded) and the firearm in there. The ammo was in another bag, but in the factory boxes. At this point, the conversation was very pleasant, as the attendant commented on the firearm, saying that “she’d need to get one like that�, as it would fit nicely in her purse.

But this is where the process gets weird, and why everyone checking firearms should arrive early, with plenty of time to check-in. The attendant that was helping me started to put my bag on the conveyer-belt, but was informed by another attendant that “No, you can’t do that!� They then started to argue over the policy, on whether or not they had to send me to the TSA oversized luggage station, and whether I had to be escorted or not. I decided not to say anything, as I was going with the flow, and didn’t want to be a problem. After several minutes of arguing, they decided that I needed to be escorted to the TSA station.

At the TSA oversized luggage station, the airline representative started talking with the TSA person, and they started to argue about what should be done. It was comical to watch. Finally, the TSA person said that it could be done either way with pistols, but long-guns had to come to his station. But since I was there, he would take care of me.

The TSA person was very nice, and we even talked about his recent CHL, and the problems he was having with finding a comfortable and concealable firearm. I mentioned this forum, so hopefully we’ll have a new member. He opened the bag that had the ammo, but did not look inside the boxes. He also had me open the lock box, and just looked at the firearm, he did not touch it. He put everything back in the suitcase, and then ran the felt test on the inside of the suitcase. Everything checked out, and he put my suitcase on the belt, and I headed on my way.

Departure Lessons

For the first time traveler, here is what I learned:

• Arrive at the airport with plenty of time to handle the check-in process.
• Smiles and polite questions go a long way.
• Go with the flow, even if you know the correct answer to the process. Unless they are REALLY messing it up, just play along.

I’ll post more of the return adventures when they happen.

Ryan

[Texasdoc]

well that helps me out as I am leaving to Va. on the 10th of march and flying Delta airlines, if I may ask what airline did you use?? did you check 2 bags or just one and have the gun in the same bag as the ammo ?? I am only going to check 1 bag and have both the gun and ammo in it , the gun is going in a kimber box wit 2 locks on it and the ammo is in a hard plastic type ammo box in a inside pocket.

thanks for telling me how TSA is in Austin ,I hope they are nice in Richmond VA.


Doc

[bcperry2000]

i've flown several times with handguns and shotguns. it's different at every airport it seems. sometimes they make me take it over to the security, sometimes they send it below to be checked, one time they checked it without anyone looking at it. everytime they give me the chance to lock the case afterwards.

on arrival i've had it go to oversize luggage, had a baggage guy bring it out by hand, had it come out on the baggage claim belt.

so overall there doesn't seem to be any consistency other than it must be in a locked case.

[razoraggie]

Southwest seems to have their counter attendants all on the same page. I primarily use Southwest out of Hobby on numerous occassions and have had nothing but a pleasant experience with their staff behind the counter EVERY time. No "freak-outs" or "I'm not sure about this...let me go get TSA"......in, out and on my way in not much time at all. Although it is a little awkward having to open a suitcase and try to NOT expose your boxer collection to everyone in line at times, but that's a small price to pay .

[nitrogen]

One piece of advice:
Make sure you're filling out the little card saying your firearm is unloaded.

Twice, I was asked to fill out the form allowing LEO's to board a plane armed.

[CWOOD]

Last summer I flew to Atlanta on Continental. As AggieMM said, a bit of preparation, courtesy and patience goes a long way.

I, too, was asked to step out of the main line to have my firearm inspected. I also used the Center of Mass type steel box. The Continental attendand was very professional and courteous. He also did not try to touch the firearm. Made sure the orange tag was in the bag and not in the locked guncase.

I also found, at my destination, and card saying my bag had been inspected after it left my possession. They (TSA) insert these "love notes" (a TSA term) to let you know it was done. My ammo was also in a factory box within main locked suitcase which contained the locked guncase. The key to the guncase stays in the owners possession.

HINT: I have heard stories of snatch and grab thieves stealing from luggage. What I did to reduce the risk of losing my pistol to theft was to install a small eyebolt on the inside of the suitcase through the metal frame of the suitcase and locking the threads so that the nut cannot be backed off. I then thread the cable of he Center of Mass box through the eyebolt and lock it back into the guncase. This way they cannot just grab the guncase out of the compromised suitcase and run off to open it at their leisure...the have to drag along the eitire suitcase. A much harder and more obvious proposition. The modification can be done very discreetly with little obvious sign on the outside and no damage on the inside. Hope this helps someone.

[nitrogen]

Can you take pictures of this?

I'm more of a visual learner

I do something similar but it only works for bags with the little extend-a-handle.

[Mike1951]

I seem to recall it being important that the ammo is in a factory box.

Maybe swap it over from the plastic container to a factory box, even if it's the wrong brand.

Or maybe I'm completely mistaken.

[CWOOD]

Can you take pictures of this?

I'm more of a visual learner

I do something similar but it only works for bags with the little extend-a-handle.

The camera software is on the fritz but I will try to explain in more detail.

I actually used 2 eyebolts. The eyebolts are threaded rods with a closed circle, or loop,(the 'eye") made on one end. The ones I used were 3/16" in diameter. I have a hardsided Samsonite suitcase. On the bottom side where the hinges are located, I drilled 2 holes 3/16" in diameter in the metal structural band around the suitcase between the hinges spaced about 10" apart. This is on the bottom of the suitcase as it sits with the handle on the top.

I then take each eyebolt and thread a nut all the way onto it, and then from the inside of the suitcase, insert the threaded end of the eyebolt through the hole on the suitcase and then, from the outside of the suitcase, install a lock washer and thread another nut on to the eyebolt. Then, tighten the two nuts against one another to secure everything in place.

At this point you can measure the excess amout of threaded rod sticking out beyond the nut on the outside of the case, remove all the parts, cut off the excess and reinstall...OR your can leave everything securely in place and use a hacksaw blade to cut off the excess. Do not cut exactly flush with the edge of the nut on the outside of the case. Leave about 1/2 turn of thread. You can then use a small hammer or punch to ruin that 1/2 turn of thread so that the nut cannot be backed off and removed. This is what secures these eyebolts to your suitcase.

With the "eye" part of the eyebolt now discreetely located on the bottom {hinge) side of the inside of your suitcase, take the cable of your Center of Mass guncase, or similar design, and thread it through the "eyes" and lock it back into the guncase. In this fashion, it would be nearly impossible for a smash and grab thief to make off with the easily concealable guncase as he would be dragging the whole suitcase with him. They don't carry cable cutters or bolt cutters with them...and that is what they would need to seperate the items.

With a bit of care in drilling and cutting, there should be almost no damage to the suitcase. Inside the suitcase, all you can see are the two round "eyes" sticking up from the hinge area. From the outside, nothing is really obvious as the installation is on the bottom of the suitcase and the nuts only extend about 1/4" out from the suitcase frame so they do not snag other items.

If I have not been suficiently clear or if you have other questions, please, feel free to ask.

[AggieMM]

The airline I used was American outta Austin.

Also, not sure about other arilines, but American demands "factory boxes" for ammo.

We'll see how my return trip goes, outta Tampa, FL.

Ryan

[57Coastie]

I seem to recall it being important that the ammo is in a factory box.

Maybe swap it over from the plastic container to a factory box, even if it's the wrong brand.

Or maybe I'm completely mistaken.

With respect, once more we see a suggestion that we break the rules in an area of intense public attention. This attitude endangers the liberal (with a small "l") attitude that Texas has toward RKBA, and encourages those who call us gun nuts by giving them evidence to support their ravings. The fact that one might think a particular rule is stupid is no excuse for breaking the rule when it endangers the privileges of the rest of us. Having some experience with both the DHS and TSA, I can speculate with a high degree of confidence that if it should be disclosed that travelers do as suggested then the only reasonable way to prevent this would be to outlaw the carriage of ammo altogether. Not to mention the personal risk one would take if this is discovered by the TSA inspector, and now we have it published on a public forum that this may be a good idea.

Jim

[jimlongley]

I was a TSA screener for more than three years and still stay in touch with my old compadres, so here's a couple of nuggets I gleaned in that time.

There is no TSA requirement that ammo be in factory boxes.

From TSA's web site:

You must securely pack any ammunition in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging that is specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.
You can't use firearm magazines/clips for packing ammunition unless they completely and securely enclose the ammunition (e.g., by securely covering the exposed portions of the magazine or by securely placing the magazine in a pouch, holder, holster or lanyard).
You may carry the ammunition in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as you pack it as described above.

I have carried spare ammo in plastic boxes for years, boxes that are obviously designed specifically to carry small amounts of ammo (I consider 50 rounds to be a small amount.) It is not TSA's responsibility to do more than determine that the ammo is properly secured. BTW, I also have travelled with loaded magazines in a belt holder, with no problem.

If the airline says the ammo MUST be in factory boxes, well, I wouldn't argue with them, much, because you might not end up flying on that carrier, but the airline is a private entity that gets to make up rules of its own, therefore if they say it has to be factory boxes, then it has to be factory boxes. OTOH, they don't say that the factory boxes have to be from the factory that made the ammo - I keep a couple of "factory boxes" at home in case I end up flying on one of those, and all of my ammo goes in the box, without regard for manufacturer. Several of my plastic boxes have marking on them that might make the case that they are factory boxes, but I have never been questioned about them.

Remember that you are not usually required to show the ammo to the ticket agent and that TSA will (should) only object to it if the ammo appears to be not properly packed. Remember also that despite their training ticket agents often do not know which end of a gun bullets come out of, I saw a ticket agent looking down the barrel of a handgun once, trying to determine if it was unloaded. The action was open and the magazine was out, and she was just making sure that there wasn't some ammo craftily concealed up the barrel.

Similarly the legendary eleven pound limit for ammo - it's an airline thing, not TSA, Southwest has no such limit, but American does.

The only reason TSA may have to open your gun case is if they cannot see around or through the gun well enough to detect IED parts. Remember that timers and switches can be very small and could be artfully concealed under a gun (I should insert a sidebar here about how we used to, and TSA still does, conduct drills on each other by trying to sneak stuff through checkpoints, and how many times I succeeded, but it's probably privileged information, so I won't) so if TSA requests you to open your gun case, which should have been locked when it got to them, it's not because they want to look at the gun, but because they need to look under it.

There is, has been, and will be a great deal of variation in the way each individual airport and various members of their staffs, including TSA, will actually do things, which is almost a given - look at how few of us can agree on what to very plainly and clearly worded 30.06 signage should be.

As far as I am concerned, AggieMM did it right, do the due diligence, print out and carry with, the TSA and airline regs, and get there early enough that any confusion resulting from people not being capable or willing to understand the regs will not make you miss your flight. After all, we are the "professionals" at carrying guns, the airline personnel deal with hundreds of different people with different wants and needs every day, and few of them involve guns. TSA screeners are primarily looking for IEDs in checked bags, and weapons in carry one, and see lots of guns per day in many airports, but you might run into one of the anti-gun nuts, or someone who just transferred in from NY City or Chicago and who doesn't know that people in other parts of the country are actually allowed to own guns.

[mgood]

Excellent post, Jim. Thanks.

[striker55]

Years ago I travelled from Albany NY to Orlando Fl, I was shooting metallic silhouettes at the time. Family vacation to FL and thought why not shoot while I was there. Anyway Albany checks my guns, 3 monster handguns, all packed in shooting suitcase carrier. They put bright orange tape, firearms enclosed on it. That made me nervous, thieves look here is what it should say. Get to Orlando get family luggage and no guns. Found out they had to be picked up at the office, no problem. Going home (won one trophy) Orlando checks and puts orange tape. When I get to Albany, expecting to go to the office for the guns, here it comes right down the ramp with all the other luggage. A little nerve racking but got home safe and sound.

[Texasdoc]

Thanks for the info Jim, I emailed Delta and there reply was they follow the TSA rules and if it passes TSA then your good to go. I have Printed off the rules for both Delta and TSA and will carry them in my laptop case as I have tocarry it onboard as they will not let me check it per Delta's rule.


again Thanks


Doc