prosecution over impromper 30.06 postings

[atxgun]

So i've been seeing various posts about 30.06 signs that don't fit the definition laid out in the books.

How much leeway do nonconforming posts give you in a defense if something happens and you end up in court over it. I'm not saying there's a shooting but lets just say an employee notices you printing, he tells a cop who then confronts you, asks for ID and you hand over your CHL and then disclose you're carrying. Maybe the cop is a rookie and not the clearest on the laws regarding this so he arrests you and you're charged w/ carrying in a 30.06 establishment.

You get in front of the judge, he asks if you saw their sign. You respond along the lines "Yeah I saw their sign, knew what their intentions were and they didn't want me carrying on their property. however I also noticed the sign was a couple inches too small so I flat out ignored it."

Are you likely to then win your defense?
[Edit: yeah i know "are you likely to win your defense" is something best discussed w/ legal counsel and I know most here aren't so I'm just looking for thoughts on the subject]

[seamusTX]

Ideally this kind of thing would never get to a judge. An assistant DA would look at the charge and decide that it was not prosecutable because the sign didn't meet the requirements of the law. He might need a nudge from your attorney.

If it gets to a judge, it will depend upon how the judge views the law. Some of them were not exacty at the top of their law school class.

- Jim

[txinvestigator]

You get in front of the judge, he asks if you saw their sign. You respond along the lines "Yeah I saw their sign, knew what their intentions were and they didn't want me carrying on their property. however I also noticed the sign was a couple inches too small so I flat out ignored it."

]

I thnk making that statement in court is a good way to find yourself convicted.

If the sign appears to be valid and/or it appears that the owner was seriously attempting to follow the legal guidlines and keep your handgun out, then obey the sign.

We all want to moan, cry and make noise about OUR right to carry, so shouldn't WE be respectful of a property owners right to control what goes on in his property?

[atxgun]

We all want to moan, cry and make noise about OUR right to carry, so shouldn't WE be respectful of a property owners right to control what goes on in his property?

That's why I posed this scenario, i was getting the impression others might feel otherwise.

[crbowers]

I lurk here quite a bit and I love the 30.06 discussion.

I'm glad that Texas has made a very specific law regarding the 30.06 sign. To me that shows that the State has taken into consideration not only the right of the property owner to prohibit concealed weapons but also the right of the carrier.

My view on it is; if they have an obviously nonconforming sign, I ignore it. By that I mean no attempt at proper wording, or no english and spanish, etc.

If they have made an attempt at the correct sign it shows that they've at least done a little homework and I will respect their intentions.

Also, if the sign is obviously no-compliant I will NEVER say anything to management about it. If they havent done any research in the proper signage I don't want to give them any help in posting the correct sign.

[Snake Doctor]

I read this forum quite a bit before joining, and I'd say this is the first time I DISagree with txinvestigator. If I have to jump through hoops and pay an arm/leg just to exercise my right to carry, you had better believe I expect the anti-CHL establishments to have to do the same with regard to 30.06 compliance. I expect the law to judge them in the same manner they would judge me.

If I stuck a cardboard sign up in your neighborhood that read "SPEED LIMIT 23" in big pink letters, would you obey it?

[frankie_the_yankee]

If I have to jump through hoops and pay an arm/leg just to exercise my right to carry, you had better believe I expect the anti-CHL establishments to have to do the same with regard to 30.06 compliance. I expect the law to judge them in the same manner they would judge me.

The thing is, the law won't be judging them, whether you expect it to or not. They can post whatever kind of sign they want. (Whether it's enforceable or not might remain to be seen.)

But you can count on the fact that if you push the issue, the law will be judging you.

My own position happens to be that if I think a property owner is making a good faith effort to post a compliant sign, in my own opinion, I will honor it. Generic Ghostbuster or "No Guns Allowed" signs I will ignore.

[txinvestigator]

I read this forum quite a bit before joining, and I'd say this is the first time I DISagree with txinvestigator. If I have to jump through hoops and pay an arm/leg just to exercise my right to carry, you had better believe I expect the anti-CHL establishments to have to do the same with regard to 30.06 compliance. I expect the law to judge them in the same manner they would judge me.

If I stuck a cardboard sign up in your neighborhood that read "SPEED LIMIT 23" in big pink letters, would you obey it?

I don't think that is a valid comparison. Even a sign that meets the requirements of the law could be ignored if not posted by an authorized agency.

[WarHawk-AVG]

K owner of the property might not have put the sign up..it could have been a ignorant "shift manager" that just slapped one up

Why should a CHL carrier be so scrutinized yet people slap up the GhostBusters no gun signs and immediately its DA LAW?

[frankie_the_yankee]

Why should a CHL carrier be so scrutinized yet people slap up the GhostBusters no gun signs and immediately its DA LAW?

Ghostbuster and "No Guns" signs are not the law.

If you're on someone else's private property, you can expect to be scrutinized, and to have your behavior scrutinized, whether you're carrying a gun or not.

[WarHawk-AVG]

Why should a CHL carrier be so scrutinized yet people slap up the GhostBusters no gun signs and immediately its DA LAW?

Ghostbuster and "No Guns" signs are not the law.

If you're on someone else's private property, you can expect to be scrutinized, and to have your behavior scrutinized, whether you're carrying a gun or not.

What I am saying is a hypothetical

You walk into a burgershack with a ghostbuster no gun on the door..ignoring it, yet you get outted by a massive anti-gunner manager that slapped that thing on the door and the police are called...who is more in the wrong..the manager who DOESN'T own the property or you for ignoring the false no guns sign??

[txinvestigator]

Why should a CHL carrier be so scrutinized yet people slap up the GhostBusters no gun signs and immediately its DA LAW?

Ghostbuster and "No Guns" signs are not the law.

If you're on someone else's private property, you can expect to be scrutinized, and to have your behavior scrutinized, whether you're carrying a gun or not.

What I am saying is a hypothetical

You walk into a burgershack with a ghostbuster no gun on the door..ignoring it, yet you get outted by a massive anti-gunner manager that slapped that thing on the door and the police are called...who is more in the wrong..the manager who DOESN'T own the property or you for ignoring the false no guns sign??

In the wrong? What in the world does that mean?

Neither of you would be "in the wrong" in your scenario. They were not "false" no guns signs". They simply don't apply to CHLers. If the manager tells you to leave because you are carrying, you immediately must leave.

If he calls the cops, so what? You are carrying legally, and you would have no legal issues if you left when told to by the manager.

[45 4 life]

I have really enjoyed reading some of the post along with the reply's in this forum and have decided to join. The signage questions and answers have always been a favorite and this particular one is what prompted me to sign up.

An improperly posted 30.06 sign would be defense for not seeing it. Once I see 30.06, or any attempt of a 30.06 I walk away, that business does not get my money. Anyother sign like a ghostbuster I ignore just like the law tells me to. Those signs are for those who do not have CHL.

[Liberty]

I have really enjoyed reading some of the post along with the reply's in this forum and have decided to join. The signage questions and answers have always been a favorite and this particular one is what prompted me to sign up.

An improperly posted 30.06 sign would be defense for not seeing it. Once I see 30.06, or any attempt of a 30.06 I walk away, that business does not get my money. Anyother sign like a ghostbuster I ignore just like the law tells me to. Those signs are for those who do not have CHL.

I will generally avoid those places, not because the signs have any legal meaning, but because they are telling me that they would rather not do business with me.

[royke]

I was in another state with CHL reciprocity, saw a pawnshop and decided
to do a little "treasure hunting". I parked, walked up to the front door and
stopped when when I saw the "no handguns" sign. I looked at the sign,
looked around and saw no one else in the parking lot, then reached into my pocket and pulled a wad of bills. I waved them at the person behind the counter who was looking expectantly at me as I walked toward the
shop. I then pointed to the sign, shook my head, turned around and
walked back to my vehicle without even "darkening their door"......
I don't know if they got the message but I certainly tried.....