i drew my weapon tonight

[Excaliber]

It's definitely good that everything turned out well, kudos for not being confrontational yourself and just trying to stop the problem advancing.

My concern with saying I'm armed in a situation like this is it almost seems like you potentially help the BG. What if he too has a gun but doesn't have it out yet? This might make him get it or take it out. Almost like a warning shot that causes further escalation. Don't know, hope to never encounter it myself.

One might consider saying "I'm prepared to defend my family and myself if attacked."

It conveys the necessary information without the hot button of mentioning a firearm.

It's a clear, very reasonable warning that sounds good on a 911 tape, and the controlled ambiguity is disconcerting to those who are not too chemically impaired to recognize it.

100% behind you on this, but I will say this: I honestly don't even remember what I said. I do remember saying "I am armed", and that was based on something a CHL instructor once told me to do.

other than that, I have no clue. I couldn't even really remember the color of the car

If you told the average person you couldn't remember the color of the car even though you were looking right at it, they'd accuse you of not telling the truth - but you are telling the truth.

The phenomenon that causes this lack of memory of something that was clearly within your view is called "inattentional blindness." You were intensely focused on the other driver who was the perceived threat. Other nonthreatening objects like the other driver's car were not important for determining whether you were about to be attacked or not. Your brain focused all your processing power on the threat, and discarded the other available visual information, even though it would have been readily recorded by a camera that was pointed at the same scene. In other words, you only remember seeing what you were looking at, even though other things were present and visible at the time.

People aren't cameras, and this is a very common perceptual phenomenon, even in non stressful situations. It is one of the things that makes the accounts of witnesses to the same event so often different, even though they were present at the same scene when it happened.

Fascinating. Kind of like a hyper tunnel vision? Seems like it could be dangerous in a multiple threat environment, no?

Yes, and that's another reason (besides tunnel vision) that officers are taught to move their heads to scan the environment during an encounter. Deliberately looking at the rest of the scene increases the chances of recognizing additional danger.

That goes back to the training we did in CA, but I have yet to see here in TX. After firing the course of fire, you scan for an additional threat before holstering.

We did the same in New York.

[mud farmer]

That goes back to the training we did in CA, but I have yet to see here in TX. After firing the course of fire, you scan for an additional threat before holstering.

We did the same in New York.

I don't know about LEO training in Texas but every intermediate or above firearm class I took included that.

[TexasCajun]

That goes back to the training we did in CA, but I have yet to see here in TX. After firing the course of fire, you scan for an additional threat before holstering.

We did the same in New York.

I don't know about LEO training in Texas but every intermediate or above firearm class I took included that.

In the basic pistol class I took several years ago at the Arms Room and during my chl class, also at the arms room we covered exactly that - bang bang look, bang bang bang look. That was also one of the drills in the NRA personal protection class that I took last year at PSC with Charles Cotton. And they all were for the same reason - training to break the tunnel vision that occurs when fight/flight kicks in.

[WildBill]

That goes back to the training we did in CA, but I have yet to see here in TX. After firing the course of fire, you scan for an additional threat before holstering.

We did the same in New York.

I don't know about LEO training in Texas but every intermediate or above firearm class I took included that.

In the basic pistol class I took several years ago at the Arms Room and during my chl class, also at the arms room we covered exactly that - bang bang look, bang bang bang look. That was also one of the drills in the NRA personal protection class that I took last year at PSC with Charles Cotton. And they all were for the same reason - training to break the tunnel vision that occurs when fight/flight kicks in.

Same as me.

[kingpinGT]

I just got the report from MoCo sherriff.

First, case was closed by the responding officer.

secondly, the dude said nothing about coming to a stop and blocking the road in front of me. he told the officer that he was peacefully passing me and then i opened my door and waved a gun around and told him i'd shoot him. OK PAL.

He also mentioned that he served overseas to the officer.

[texanjoker]

I just got the report from MoCo sherriff.

First, case was closed by the responding officer.

secondly, the dude said nothing about coming to a stop and blocking the road in front of me. he told the officer that he was peacefully passing me and then i opened my door and waved a gun around and told him i'd shoot him. OK PAL.

He also mentioned that he served overseas to the officer.

That is why leo's investigate to hear all sides of the story to come to some sort of the truth. I always preach this in every incident we see on here and do that in real life on a daily basis. As I tend to tell people, I wasn't the fly on the wall so tell me your version. Glad it worked out and glad the deputy knew his stuff.

[rdcrags]

Practice stating something similar to "STOP! Step/Move any closer and you will be treated as a threat!

That sounds good to me. "treated as a threat". BG can draw his/her own conclusion.

Thanks for the thread.

[eztarget]

Very interesting read. read almost all of this and I am new to it all. I have one comment about some posts that state "the aggressor left his weapon when he left his car". How do you know he was not carrying a weapon as well? In my CHL class I saw a picture of a horrific Knife attack on what we were told was a LEO.

[kingpinGT]

Very interesting read. read almost all of this and I am new to it all. I have one comment about some posts that state "the aggressor left his weapon when he left his car". How do you know he was not carrying a weapon as well? In my CHL class I saw a picture of a horrific Knife attack on what we were told was a LEO.

bringing back my old topic, that was my initial justification of drawing my weapon. I didn't know what he was doing, what he had, or what his intentions were. He acted aggressively towards me and my family, and I responded with what I felt was necessary to stop him in his tracks.

Side note, this dude was a fool. Literally every person in my car with the exception on my infant daughter has their CHL and 2 of us(myself and my wife) were armed... granted she forgot where her pistol was stowed in the heat of the moment, but still....

[Excaliber]

Very interesting read. read almost all of this and I am new to it all. I have one comment about some posts that state "the aggressor left his weapon when he left his car". How do you know he was not carrying a weapon as well? In my CHL class I saw a picture of a horrific Knife attack on what we were told was a LEO.

bringing back my old topic, that was my initial justification of drawing my weapon. I didn't know what he was doing, what he had, or what his intentions were. He acted aggressively towards me and my family, and I responded with what I felt was necessary to stop him in his tracks.

Side note, this dude was a fool. Literally every person in my car with the exception on my infant daughter has their CHL and 2 of us(myself and my wife) were armed... granted she forgot where her pistol was stowed in the heat of the moment, but still....

Having a CHL of no help during an emergency unless one brings the firearm with him, knows where it is, and knows when and how to use it.

In the situation described in your post, you were the only one who was actually armed.

[maximus2161]

Its easy to look back after and point out what you could have done different in that situation. I think you did ok based on what you have said. When you told him you had a gun or if he saw it its good you notified the police right away. You dont want that guy calling in on you (and he did just that) and you didnt call the police. I think thats really important.

Main thing is its good you and your family are safe.

[WildBill]

Having a CHL of no help during an emergency unless one brings the firearm with him, knows where it is, and knows when and how to use it.

A very obvious observation, but very true!

[kingpinGT]

Very interesting read. read almost all of this and I am new to it all. I have one comment about some posts that state "the aggressor left his weapon when he left his car". How do you know he was not carrying a weapon as well? In my CHL class I saw a picture of a horrific Knife attack on what we were told was a LEO.

bringing back my old topic, that was my initial justification of drawing my weapon. I didn't know what he was doing, what he had, or what his intentions were. He acted aggressively towards me and my family, and I responded with what I felt was necessary to stop him in his tracks.

Side note, this dude was a fool. Literally every person in my car with the exception on my infant daughter has their CHL and 2 of us(myself and my wife) were armed... granted she forgot where her pistol was stowed in the heat of the moment, but still....

Having a CHL of no help during an emergency unless one brings the firearm with him, knows where it is, and knows when and how to use it.

In the situation described in your post, you were the only one who was actually armed.

I made sure afterwards that i very clearly reminded her where the .38 snubby was in her car.

[TEA]

I'm glad everything worked out OK in the end for you and your family. I agree with those that say it is easy to Monday Morning QB your actions, but discussing this type of scenario is very helpful to all of us, because as more than one member has posted, we tend to react to situations in the manner that we've rehearsed, whether that be physically and mentally or just mentally. Lots of very good advice and discussion. I especially like the advice about the use of headlights and horn.

To throw my $0.02 in (I'm new to CCW but have been studying and teaching unarmed self defense for over 30 years). First, make sure you unbuckle your seat belt as soon as you put your car in park. Also, if at all possible, get on the phone with 911 as soon as you perceive a threat (preferably your wife in your situation but yourself if you are alone). This not only enables the police to get there sooner if need be but also gets a recording of the event as it transpires. Have the person on the phone provide detailed descriptions of the car, drive and driver's actions.

With regards to the backing up and turning around option, a lot of that depends on the circumstances. While this may have been your best option, once the other driver had left his vehicle, the opportunity to retreat safely narrowed significantly. By exiting the vehicle, he presented at least the perception of hostile intent. Most residential streets require one to at least execute a three point turn in order to U turn, if not more depending on how narrow the street is, if there are other cars parked on the street and the turning radius of one's vehicle. In order to turn around, one would have to expose the passenger side of one's car to other driver. The OP has no way of knowing if the other driver is armed or not, and attempting a U turn while the other driver is already out of his car would expose passengers to the potential of gunfire from the other driver. Even if he was not armed, if he chose to attack the vehicle's occupants, the passengers would be his nearest victims during a U turn attempt. Think of the actions of the angry motorcyclists in NYC a couple of months back. Even after they dragged the driver out of the car and started beating him, some of the bikers went after the wife.

Excalibur's comments about perception and memory are spot on and not only illustrate challenges to situational awareness under stress but also the problems with eye witness testimony. Not only is our perception of events around us selective, our memories are not fixed, but rather, change over time and can be influenced by new information (true or false) suggested after an event has been perceived.

From a tactical perspective, I think stopping the threat before he advanced all the way to your vehicle was sound. However, it may be safer legally to wait until he is actually banging on your window before warning him off by stating that one is armed. Any legal scholars care to weigh in on this.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... 9.htm#9.04
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... 9.htm#9.31

[Excaliber]

I'm glad everything worked out OK in the end for you and your family. I agree with those that say it is easy to Monday Morning QB your actions, but discussing this type of scenario is very helpful to all of us, because as more than one member has posted, we tend to react to situations in the manner that we've rehearsed, whether that be physically and mentally or just mentally. Lots of very good advice and discussion. I especially like the advice about the use of headlights and horn.

To throw my $0.02 in (I'm new to CCW but have been studying and teaching unarmed self defense for over 30 years). First, make sure you unbuckle your seat belt as soon as you put your car in park. Also, if at all possible, get on the phone with 911 as soon as you perceive a threat (preferably your wife in your situation but yourself if you are alone). This not only enables the police to get there sooner if need be but also gets a recording of the event as it transpires. Have the person on the phone provide detailed descriptions of the car, drive and driver's actions.

With regards to the backing up and turning around option, a lot of that depends on the circumstances. While this may have been your best option, once the other driver had left his vehicle, the opportunity to retreat safely narrowed significantly. By exiting the vehicle, he presented at least the perception of hostile intent. Most residential streets require one to at least execute a three point turn in order to U turn, if not more depending on how narrow the street is, if there are other cars parked on the street and the turning radius of one's vehicle. In order to turn around, one would have to expose the passenger side of one's car to other driver. The OP has no way of knowing if the other driver is armed or not, and attempting a U turn while the other driver is already out of his car would expose passengers to the potential of gunfire from the other driver. Even if he was not armed, if he chose to attack the vehicle's occupants, the passengers would be his nearest victims during a U turn attempt. Think of the actions of the angry motorcyclists in NYC a couple of months back. Even after they dragged the driver out of the car and started beating him, some of the bikers went after the wife.

Excalibur's comments about perception and memory are spot on and not only illustrate challenges to situational awareness under stress but also the problems with eye witness testimony. Not only is our perception of events around us selective, our memories are not fixed, but rather, change over time and can be influenced by new information (true or false) suggested after an event has been perceived.

From a tactical perspective, I think stopping the threat before he advanced all the way to your vehicle was sound. However, it may be safer legally to wait until he is actually banging on your window before warning him off by stating that one is armed. Any legal scholars care to weigh in on this.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... 9.htm#9.04
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... 9.htm#9.31

As you correctly point out, a U turn may well be way too slow if an aggressor is advancing on your vehicle.

However, backing up on a lightly traveled street is a very viable option and one that is taught to police officers who find themselves suddenly confronted by an approaching aggressor. You can back up faster than the aggressor can run, you maintain the partial cover of your vehicle, and your action demonstrates your intent to disengage. Every step he takes toward your position takes him further from the safety and comfort of his own vehicle, as well as providing strong evidence of his aggressive intent.

The time to make the U turn is when he stops advancing and you have enough distance between you do execute it safely.