30.06 at Gun Shows

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sjfcontrol
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Re: 30.06 at Gun Shows

#61

Post by sjfcontrol »

cb1000rider wrote:Gun show in Cedar Park this weekend @ Cedar Park Center:
http://www.cedarparkcenter.com/events/d ... gun-show-1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Seems to be the standard deal. City owner property. Event promoter is posting 30.06 (at least on 4/2013).

According to their facebook page:
... all gun shows in the state of Texas, including ours, are posted 30.06 and is a condition of entry. All guns must be unloaded and tied and all magazines must be empty
I haven't gone to a gun show in about 20 years. I've got friends that want to go to this one. Apparently the "policy" at the event is to have people disarm at the door... I'm not sure how that is any more legal.


Good guy city PD in Houston banned their officers from enforcing "house rules" that ran contrary to state law:
http://blog.chron.com/houstonpolitics/2 ... rity-jobs/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Kudos to HPD..
So they used the Sheriffs office instead...

Anyone actually been hassled at one of these shows? I know concealed = concealed.
I really liked that article, until I got to the line...
Bean said deputies from the Harris County Sheriff’s Office will step in to provide security for show.
So I guess the Sheriffs have no problem enforcing "house rules", eh? :banghead:
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cb1000rider
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Re: 30.06 at Gun Shows

#62

Post by cb1000rider »

I'm content knowing that Cedar Park PD isn't arresting anyone on the issue.. (That's 2nd hand)
But I'm conflicted in regard to an event that is paid for by a promoter and that promoters rights to set rules vs state law. If it were a private business, I'd be respectful of the posting...

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Re: 30.06 at Gun Shows

#63

Post by jsk »

cb1000rider wrote:Good guy city PD in Houston banned their officers from enforcing "house rules" that ran contrary to state law:
http://blog.chron.com/houstonpolitics/2 ... rity-jobs/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Kudos to HPD..
So they used the Sheriffs office instead...

Anyone actually been hassled at one of these shows? I know concealed = concealed.
I found the last paragraph of that article interesting (and somewhat ambiguous given the rest of the article:

"Patrons at the show who do not have concealed-carry permits still will have their weapons unloaded and tied at the door, as will permit holders who plan on showing their firearms, she said."

That would seem to imply concealed carry is OK as long as you keep it concealed.

anomie
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Re: 30.06 at Gun Shows

#64

Post by anomie »

nightmare69 wrote:I asked is the city or lone star gun shows posting it. Both said the other is posting it.
The absurdist in me wants this to mean that neither side is posting it and it's actually some random guy with an odd sense of humor putting the signs up. "I'm gonna gum up that bureaucracy, I swear!".

I expect in reality it means that neither side wants to take complaints.
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nightmare69
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Re: 30.06 at Gun Shows

#65

Post by nightmare69 »

anomie wrote:
nightmare69 wrote:I asked is the city or lone star gun shows posting it. Both said the other is posting it.
The absurdist in me wants this to mean that neither side is posting it and it's actually some random guy with an odd sense of humor putting the signs up. "I'm gonna gum up that bureaucracy, I swear!".

I expect in reality it means that neither side wants to take complaints.
Its the promoters of the gun show posting it. I never got a response to my emails that I sent out to both promoters, go figure.
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cb1000rider
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Re: 30.06 at Gun Shows

#66

Post by cb1000rider »

The Austin (Cedar Park) show has the following verbiage:
You may bring your gun to the show – it must be unloaded, checked by the Police Officers at the entrance, and tied with a plastic tie. NO EXCEPTIONS – including concealed carry permit holders, the show is posted as such in accordance with Texas laws.

Too bad it's not posted in accordance with Texas law.
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puma guy
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Re: 30.06 at Gun Shows

#67

Post by puma guy »

cb1000rider wrote:The Austin (Cedar Park) show has the following verbiage:
You may bring your gun to the show – it must be unloaded, checked by the Police Officers at the entrance, and tied with a plastic tie. NO EXCEPTIONS – including concealed carry permit holders, the show is posted as such in accordance with Texas laws.

Too bad it's not posted in accordance with Texas law.
Apparently they can't read in Austin. A CHL exposing their weapon is a violation of the law!
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cb1000rider
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Re: 30.06 at Gun Shows

#68

Post by cb1000rider »

Cedar Park, not Austin. Williamson County. Trust me, there is a big difference.
I may head up today ask the LEOs what they think.
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iAmSam
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Re: 30.06 at Gun Shows

#69

Post by iAmSam »

cb1000rider wrote:The Austin (Cedar Park) show has the following verbiage:
You may bring your gun to the show – it must be unloaded, checked by the Police Officers at the entrance, and tied with a plastic tie. NO EXCEPTIONS
If it's really NO EXCEPTIONS those police officers will look very silly with their guns zip tied. :smilelol5:

cb1000rider
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Re: 30.06 at Gun Shows

#70

Post by cb1000rider »

Well, I went up there running hidden video out of my pocket, fully expecting to have my 2nd amendment rights handed to me.
Note, I didn't carry.. I was with my wife and child and this weekend wasn't a good weekend for me to spend behind bars.
Bought my "tickets" and stopped by the PD counter, which was manned by Cedar Park PD.

I told them that I needed "clarification" as my CHL instructor had told me that we could ignore 30.06 signs on City owned property under certain conditions. I also mentioned that I wasn't armed and showed them my wasteband.
There were 3 LEOs at the table.

I spoke to one of them. That officer was fairly decked out for the occasion - full vest, lots of ammo. He told me that that at prior events they had had "trouble", but that "technically" they were unable to bar CHL holders from entering carrying concealed weapons. He said that was was unwilling to make an "unlawful arrest" but he wasn't sure that the officer behind him felt that way. It was a joking tone. Basically he said it was a "house rule" and they'd be unwilling to break the law to make an arrest.

So in my book, it's "good guy" Cedar Park PD.

We really need some sort of rule that enforced non-posting of 30.06 where prohibited, otherwise we run into conditions where law enforcement and CHL holders aren't entirely clear. Cedar Park was obviously well versed on the subject.

Note, I spoke to 3 other CHL holders at the event. All of them indicated that it was "illegal" to carry to that event. So the 30.06 sign is doing it's job per event owner.

I do understand why we might not want people unconcealing and de-racking rounds through firearms. In fact, I'm not entirely clear on how you can legally carry a handgun there at all - loaded or unloaded.
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Re: 30.06 at Gun Shows

#71

Post by puma guy »

cb1000rider wrote:Cedar Park, not Austin. Williamson County. Trust me, there is a big difference.
I may head up today ask the LEOs what they think.
I guess I just saw Austin and didn't make the distinction, either way it's a violation to expose your CHL.

cb1000rider wrote:Well, I went up there running hidden video out of my pocket, fully expecting to have my 2nd amendment rights handed to me.
Note, I didn't carry.. I was with my wife and child and this weekend wasn't a good weekend for me to spend behind bars.
Bought my "tickets" and stopped by the PD counter, which was manned by Cedar Park PD.

I told them that I needed "clarification" as my CHL instructor had told me that we could ignore 30.06 signs on City owned property under certain conditions. I also mentioned that I wasn't armed and showed them my wasteband.
There were 3 LEOs at the table.

I spoke to one of them. That officer was fairly decked out for the occasion - full vest, lots of ammo. He told me that that at prior events they had had "trouble", but that "technically" they were unable to bar CHL holders from entering carrying concealed weapons. He said that was was unwilling to make an "unlawful arrest" but he wasn't sure that the officer behind him felt that way. It was a joking tone. Basically he said it was a "house rule" and they'd be unwilling to break the law to make an arrest.

So in my book, it's "good guy" Cedar Park PD.

We really need some sort of rule that enforced non-posting of 30.06 where prohibited, otherwise we run into conditions where law enforcement and CHL holders aren't entirely clear. Cedar Park was obviously well versed on the subject.


Note, I spoke to 3 other CHL holders at the event. All of them indicated that it was "illegal" to carry to that event. So the 30.06 sign is doing it's job per event owner.

I do understand why we might not want people unconcealing and de-racking rounds through firearms. In fact, I'm not entirely clear on how you can legally carry a handgun there at all - loaded or unloaded.
Thank goodness your PD is better educated than my locals. I was met with arrogant ignorance at the last gun show I attended. I didn't make an issue of it and since I'd already bought my ticket I just got stamped and returned to my truck to leave my weapon. When I returned I got stopped again and was questioned. I told the officer I don't have to answer any of her questions legally entering the show, but my daughter who was attending with me was looking uncomfortable so I informed the PO I had no weapons. She looked like she was going to push back (maybe try to search me), but just waved me on by. She told me the city and the PD can do anything they want to. :banghead: That was the one time in my life I really felt like telling an LEO they were an idiot. I wish I had a video.

I was really hoping the bill allowing complaints on government postings of 30.06 would pass last session. Maybe next session.
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cb1000rider
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Re: 30.06 at Gun Shows

#72

Post by cb1000rider »

The LEO is right. The city and the PD can do anything they want to. You can choose to challenge them on it under a legal circumstance if you have the time and money to work it out.
I was expecting ignorance or willful disregard.. Eitherof which on camera might be useful to someone else in the future. Instead, I got the opposite!

That type of experience is why I run the recording device. If they are blatantly ignorant of the law or intentionally choose to violate the law, those results should be captured and published so that the department can "reeducate" internally. I think that's a much better outcome than an arrest and eventual result of dropped charges, which is going to incur inconvenience, expense, and a public record which may have a life long punitive impact. Being arrested would, for me, immediately cost 2 licenses.

I honestly don't have an issue with a policy of no loaded weapons at a gun show. I saw weapons being dry fired without being cleared first, etc and it was pretty crowded. I just wish that the organizers of these events would adhere to the law, acknowledge that they're playing by "house rules", or change their policies. Alternately, they could rent private facilities where 30.06 is validly prohibited... And it bothers me somewhat that 3 out of 4 CHL holders that I knew at that event were completely unaware of the exception - it just shows that the law is complicated. Want my compliance? Ask for it. Don't lie to me about it.

Anyone looking to fire a gun there and do mass damage could. They'll hand a gun to you and no one is searching pockets for ammo or firearms. It's probably why Cedar Park PD was more prepared than usual in terms of tactical gear.

I give credit to my CHL brethren on other forums in regard to contacting the Cedar Park attorney as well as organizers. My guess is that making a "stink" is part of why the PD is educated around this corner case. They had run into this question in the past.

I may post the video for posterity or for reference to PDs in other places of Texas under the same set of city-owned facility circumstances.
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AdioSS
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Re: 30.06 at Gun Shows

#73

Post by AdioSS »

Since the posting of the 30.06 sign is not legal at these, couldn't the people posting them get charged for it? I'm sure that would put an end to it.
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sjfcontrol
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Re: 30.06 at Gun Shows

#74

Post by sjfcontrol »

AdioSS wrote:Since the posting of the 30.06 sign is not legal at these, couldn't the people posting them get charged for it? I'm sure that would put an end to it.
Unfortunately, due to the failure of this years legislature, posting of 30.06 signs is never illegal, they simply are not enforceable for state/local government property. There's nothing to charge the poster's with.
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nightmare69
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Re: 30.06 at Gun Shows

#75

Post by nightmare69 »

RogueUSMC wrote:The oil filter suppressor adaptor is legit...you just pay the stamp for the adapter and just change the filters when they wear out...
Problem with that is if you put on oil filter and shoot with it then you have a unregistered surpressor. If you get caught you will go to prison just like the FBI agent that got busted by the ATF for having one. Not worth it.
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