Another casualty of Open Carry

[nightmare69]

Just this morning I received 4 notifications from texas3006 of new postings in my town. One was just 30.07 and the other three were businesses posting both 30.06 and 30.07.

[Solaris]

Restored freedom? We lost more places to carry than we gained.

Jeez - We are less than 9 days in. It will take some time to get these signs to come down. Does anyone know if TSRA is going to help or not?

[parabelum]

Just thought about this...if we, the polite OC/CC community folks choose to CC only, and suppose that the ONLY OC interaction businesses see are with OCT ilk, y'all think that's good,bad or indifferent to our 2A cause.
Just thinking....
Sorry if it's a reducto ad absurdum thinking...

Certainly worth considering, but I don't think the distinction will be made by the nay sayers.

Maybe so, maybe not...I don't know.

What got me thinking was when I went to my local cvs today, I OC'ed and the store was pretty full.
While I was on the vitamin aisle, I was approached by a gentleman who was with his wife, maybe in thei mid 40's if that matters, and he asked if I could tell him what he needed for his licence. I presume since I didn't have a mall ninja badge he didn't think I was LE, hence his question...

Anyways, that's beside the point. I always dress nice and I'm extra polite when I OC. The left is using propaganda against us, and I'm sad to say, they are very effective and winning.

Maybe we forfeit, to an extent , the promulgation of our propaganda. And, the remaining de-facto "educators" are then the OCT nuts, and that my friends is not a great deal for us

Just my opinion of course.

[JRG]

Just this morning I received 4 notifications from texas3006 of new postings in my town. One was just 30.07 and the other three were businesses posting both 30.06 and 30.07.

I also have noticed a spike in the 30.06 notices along with the 30.07 ones. Used to only getting a notification about every month or so, not several in a day.

Joe

[OlBill]

I don't disagree parabelum, they are louder, they get the attention. I'm not sure the average citizen can distinguish, at least right now. More and more encounters like yours and perhaps that will change.

It happens all the time. Many people believe terrorists speak for all Muslims. Or Farrakhan speaks for all black people.

Because they are the loudest.

The media isn't interested in listening to calm, reasonable professionals discussing facts. They want AR15s in Starbucks and terrified children.

[Distinguished Rick]

Restored freedom? We lost more places to carry than we gained.

Jeez - We are less than 9 days in. It will take some time to get these signs to come down. Does anyone know if TSRA is going to help or not?

Love your optimism.

[Solaris]

Restored freedom? We lost more places to carry than we gained.

Jeez - We are less than 9 days in. It will take some time to get these signs to come down. Does anyone know if TSRA is going to help or not?

Love your optimism.

lready gotten 1 sign down myself, know of 3 others done by friends. The key is to not whine about the signs on the internets but to go to the owner and politely explain what the signs me and how the effect his business.

[flintknapper]

Aother casualty of Open Carry
post by LTUME1978 » Sat Jan 09, 2016 6:49 am

I never gave much though to the "open carry" thing until yesterday afternoon. Got an email from work telling us that not only are 30.07 signs going up over the weekend on our office building but 30.06 as well.

So without having contacted your resources at work to inquire about their decision, how do you know that CC has become a "casualty" owing to OC?

What was the policy concerning handguns BEFORE OC? Did your company expressly allow handguns CC'd, or were they just like a LOT of companies and simply didn't give much thought to it? Most companies....whether posted or not, still have/had policies (in employee handbooks) prohibiting weapons (to include handguns). If that was the case it might be inaccurate to claim that OC caused the demise of CC.

I will not argue that OC has caused many businesses to now decide what their position will be with regards to allowing or disallowing handguns (regardless the mode of carry). I think to some degree that is what we are seeing.

You do realize that your company can grant individuals 'permission' to carry on the premises, exclusive of the signs?

IF their posture was to allow CC before, then I wouldn't think you'd have any problem getting permission.

What makes this even more frustrating is I have yet to see a single open carry. I hope the folks that made such a big deal out of open carry are happy because it is costing more than a few of us our right to carry concealed and protect ourselves in many places.

OC is a clear advancement. And a quick correction...you do not have any "right" to carry openly or concealed, else we would not need a license to do it. We effectively have state issued 'permission', subject to many regulations and conditions.

And to the open carry folks, no, getting a new job is not an option unless you will make me whole financially. I am 60 and 5 years away from retirement. I will adamently oppose anything that comes out of the OCT group/organization going forward and will write my legislators stating that. Wish this open carry thing had never happened. Makes me wonder if the OCT folks are antigun wolves in sheep's clothing.

^^^^^^^^^^ Agreed for the most part. If you could even find another (similar) job at your/our age....count yourself lucky and that is not something anyone wants you to be up against. I suggest you inquire of the administration at your work, what their position is, why the decision was made and IF there will be exceptions made for certain employees.

As for OCT or certain other groups, I do not disagree with all they have tried to achieve, I just disagree with almost EVERY tactic they've used to try to get there! But lets be VERY careful not to lump the "open carry folks" as you call them....in with groups like OCT and others, we don't deserve that association or your ire.

[nightmare69]

Aother casualty of Open Carry
post by LTUME1978 » Sat Jan 09, 2016 6:49 am

I never gave much though to the "open carry" thing until yesterday afternoon. Got an email from work telling us that not only are 30.07 signs going up over the weekend on our office building but 30.06 as well.

So without having contacted your resources at work to inquire about their decision, how do you know that CC has become a "casualty" owing to OC?

What was the policy concerning handguns BEFORE OC? Did your company expressly allow handguns CC'd, or were they just like a LOT of companies and simply didn't give much thought to it? Most companies....whether posted or not, still have/had policies (in employee handbooks) prohibiting weapons (to include handguns). If that was the case it might be inaccurate to claim that OC caused the demise of CC.

I will not argue that OC has caused many businesses to now decide what their position will be with regards to allowing or disallowing handguns (regardless the mode of carry). I think to some degree that is what we are seeing.

You do realize that your company can grant individuals 'permission' to carry on the premises, exclusive of the signs?

IF their posture was to allow CC before, then I wouldn't think you'd have any problem getting permission.

What makes this even more frustrating is I have yet to see a single open carry. I hope the folks that made such a big deal out of open carry are happy because it is costing more than a few of us our right to carry concealed and protect ourselves in many places.

OC is a clear advancement. And a quick correction...you do not have any "right" to carry openly or concealed, else we would not need a license to do it. We effectively have state issued 'permission', subject to many regulations and conditions.

And to the open carry folks, no, getting a new job is not an option unless you will make me whole financially. I am 60 and 5 years away from retirement. I will adamently oppose anything that comes out of the OCT group/organization going forward and will write my legislators stating that. Wish this open carry thing had never happened. Makes me wonder if the OCT folks are antigun wolves in sheep's clothing.

^^^^^^^^^^ Agreed for the most part. If you could even find another (similar) job at your/our age....count yourself lucky and that is not something anyone wants you to be up against. I suggest you inquire of the administration at your work, what their position is, why the decision was made and IF there will be exceptions made for certain employees.

As for OCT or certain other groups, I do not disagree with all they have tried to achieve, I just disagree with almost EVERY tactic they've used to try to get there! But lets be VERY careful not to lump the "open carry folks" as you call them....in with groups like OCT and others, we don't deserve that association or your ire.

There is no denying the fact that since OC went into effect some businesses who were once open to CC have decided to post both signs prohibiting LTC holders from being armed all together.

[flintknapper]

Postby parabelum » Sat Jan 09, 2016 2:46 pm

OlBill wrote:
parabelum wrote:
Just thought about this...if we, the polite OC/CC community folks choose to CC only, and suppose that the ONLY OC interaction businesses see are with OCT ilk, y'all think that's good,bad or indifferent to our 2A cause.
Just thinking....
Sorry if it's a reducto ad absurdum thinking...

Certainly worth considering, but I don't think the distinction will be made by the nay sayers.



Maybe so, maybe not...I don't know.

What got me thinking was when I went to my local cvs today, I OC'ed and the store was pretty full.
While I was on the vitamin aisle, I was approached by a gentleman who was with his wife, maybe in thei mid 40's if that matters, and he asked if I could tell him what he needed for his licence. I presume since I didn't have a mall ninja badge he didn't think I was LE, hence his question...

Anyways, that's beside the point. I always dress nice and I'm extra polite when I OC. The left is using propaganda against us, and I'm sad to say, they are very effective and winning.

Maybe we forfeit, to an extent , the promulgation of our propaganda. And, the remaining de-facto "educators" are then the OCT nuts, and that my friends is not a great deal for us

Just my opinion of course.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Right on target Sir!

There needs to be a certain OC exposure, (done responsibly and shown in its best light).

Further, I would love to see advertising (TV commercials) and on Social Media....in EXACTLY the same fashion as recent NRA ads espousing the good virtues of everyday folks, then ending with "We are the NRA". The same thing could be done with those of us who choose to 'carry'. I would readily contribute to such an effort.

Because our weapons have previously been concealed, few people have given any thought to the fact that WE (all who carry) are their neighbors, friends, co-workers, professionals, public servants, law abiding citizens. For 20 years we've proven ourselves to be trustworthy and no threat to the public. Does the removal of a garment...change that, NO! Do they realize that we have been among them all this time, probably not. CC has its downside too.

These are points we should advertise and capitalize on.

[baldeagle]

As witnessed in several robberies, 30.06/30.07 also let the goblins know where to go!

Sooner or later they all figure it out and become human, whereby they think for themselves.

Patience.....

What universe do you live in? I live in America, and it's been my experience that people don't learn much at all. We keep electing the same "leaders" over and over again, even after they've been convicted of crimes. How does that indicate even a modicum of learning? The nation has been going downhill for 50 years or more and yet people still argue about which party is better for the country when both parties have been destroying it.

Since 1950 every mass shooting but two have taken place in gun free zones. Have you seen much learning going on? Have any gun free zones come down? My God, we even have gun free zones on military bases.

It's been said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. On that basis, at least half, if not more, of Americans are insane. No learning is going to occur in that crowd.

[baldeagle]

So you guys have no appreciation for this restored freedom? Would you rather the government take it away again for another 125 years? Grapevine mills mall has been posted 30.06 for years and now they aren't posted at all.

Freedom scares people, we have been told it's ok to lose freedom for safety. What freedoms are you willing to give up for safety? We have the patriot act, Obamacare, "common sense" gun laws. All of these things make us safer. Do you feel free?

Are you absolutely certain about this? GVM has famously been posted for years, and as recently as last month it was STILL posted. The parent company is extremely anti-gun, and it would surprise the heck out of me if they removed all the signs.

According to texas3006.com they are not posted presently.

Just went in and out through the doors by Nike, no signs. So I drove around to every entrance. No signs at any entrance. Don't know if they are getting new ones, but until then....

Posted on: 2016-01-09 13:56:11

[flintknapper]

There is no denying the fact that since OC went into effect some businesses who were once open to CC have decided to post both signs prohibiting LTC holders from being armed all together.

Correct and no 'denial' is being proposed. What IS being proposed (apparently by only a few) is WHY, and what was the INTENT?

If we don't analyze it, we will never know what approaches can be taken to swing that around. You HAVE to know what you are fighting in order to know HOW to fight it. Then.... we have to be WILLING to fight.

I find much of the gun owning public to be largely complacent, content to complain among themselves rather than address those who seek to erode our liberties.

If each of us were to spend as much time contacting businesses to express our concerns... as we do bickering here (me included), we might find out what the REAL story is with each. Until then...it is not much more than conjecture and supposition.

Don't be guilty of jumping onto the "OC is killing CC" bandwagon, armed with no more information than we have at present. We simply don't know (yet) all reasons for the increase in signage (OC or CC) and I'm sorry...but you can't blame ALL of it on OCT (though they are deserving of a large portion).

Let's look for solutions, not ways to split our ranks.

[Winchster]

The only advantage I see to OC is comfort. You can dress more comfortably. I see lots of disadvantages, and new we are seeing a lot of backlash.

Whether you do it or not isn't important, it's the fact that we can do it. Peoples fears will subside and we will find a new normal.

And that "new normal" will be many fewer places we can protect ourselves. Once up, the signs will NOT come down.

Not necessarily true. On Thursday a store I frequent put up .06, I informed them I could no longer shop there. On Friday, the sign was gone and the manager was appreciative of my polite discourse regarding the sign. They aren't all permanent.

[anygunanywhere]

The only advantage I see to OC is comfort. You can dress more comfortably. I see lots of disadvantages, and new we are seeing a lot of backlash.

Whether you do it or not isn't important, it's the fact that we can do it. Peoples fears will subside and we will find a new normal.

And that "new normal" will be many fewer places we can protect ourselves. Once up, the signs will NOT come down.

Not necessarily true. On Thursday a store I frequent put up .06, I informed them I could no longer shop there. On Friday, the sign was gone and the manager was appreciative of my polite discourse regarding the sign. They aren't all permanent.

Great post. Thanks!