Major advancements for Texas CHL holders

[C-dub]

Gotcha, I know a few people who want to get a CHL but the cost of the entire process is keeping them from it.

Tell them to consider the significantly reduced renewal fees now.

[JJVP]

I am not real concerned about the loss of revenue from renewal students.

What I AM concerned about is making it through the summer. Students have cancelled classes right and left for May and June so they can wait for the shorter class in September. So, we might be taking the summer off in preparation for the September stampede.

I am also concerned that DPS will not be quick in responding to this change, and we will be scrambling to figure out how to manage the same class material in a shorter time, while still meeting DPS requirements.

I haven't had any cancellations, but I am making sure that I have at least a break-even point for my summer classes. I'm getting into prep mode for that September stampede as well. I just don't see where I am going to be able to really cut down the curriculum without teaching the test. It's do-able, I know, but really hard when you think all the information is good information!

TBM

Think about what you are required to teach as opposed to what you think it's good for the students to know. Use of force; non violent dispute resolution; handgun use; and safe and proper storage of handguns and ammunition are all that's required. The rest is fluff. Handgun use and safe and proper storage of handguns shouldn't take more than an hour.

That leaves you an hour and a half each for use of force and non violent dispute resolution. IMO both should get equal time. Note that there is no requirement to teach chl laws regarding prohibited locations, proper behavior in public, types of holsters, types of weapons, forms of concealment, and all those types of things that commonly get covered.

If I were an instructor, I would put together a small booklet about things you should know about having a CHL that I am not required to teach. I would hand that out at the end of every class along with the DPS TEXAS CONCEALED HANDGUN LAWS AND SELECTED STATUTES. And I would tell them, it is your responsibility as a CHL licensee to know all the laws and to fully understand your responsibilities. These booklets should serve as a reference and guide to assist you in learning what you need to know.

At the beginning I would cover handgun use and safe and proper storage. I would ask for a show of hands; how many have never touched a gun before? How many feel comfortable that they are handling guns in a safe manner? Then I would state that the goal of this hour is to get every one of you to the point that you will never handle a gun in an unsafe manner.

Next I would do non violent dispute resolution. I would finish with use of force. That way the class begins by stressing proper and safe handling of firearms, leads into non violent dispute resolution (because I just taught them how serious firearm ownership is and how easily someone can be hurt through improper handling and therefore deadly force should be a deliberate choice as well as the last resort.) Then, the last section of the class would be structured like this: You've learned proper handling and safety, you've learned how to avoid violent encounters, now let's talk about what you can and should do and what the law permits you to do when you have no options left and must use deadly force.

I'd probably do the range work between non violent dispute resolution and use of force. So, class begins at 8:30. Break at 9:30. Resume at 9:45 and go to 11:15 with a break at the half-way point. Break for lunch. Meet at the range at 1:15. Shoot until done. Resume class for 1 and 1/2 hours to complete the use of force section. Then administer the test and hand out certificates.

I don't think proper handgun use; and safe and proper storage of handguns and ammunition is what needs to be covered at all in a CHL class. Those topics belong on a firearm safety class. The only requirements for the CHL class are non-violent dispute resolution, use of force, and CHL laws.

[troglodyte]

I happen to be one of the cheapest, if not the cheapest, in my area. I have/had very low overhead (I had free access to a meeting place, AV, range, etc) and this is more of a paying hobby for me. I also wanted to make the class available to those that thoguht the $120+ classes were out of reach. That said, I was anticipating having to increase my class fee this spring or summer to cover increases in some overhead and supplies. Now I will likely keep my prices the same and don't anticipate holding two classes a day. I'll just enjoy a good class in the morning, a pleasant day at the range around noon, and a restful afternoon at home with the wife. Doesn't sound too bad to me.

I do hope the DPS jumps on this and gets the class "requirements" out to us in a timely fashion.

Overall though

[jmra]

I am not real concerned about the loss of revenue from renewal students.

What I AM concerned about is making it through the summer. Students have cancelled classes right and left for May and June so they can wait for the shorter class in September. So, we might be taking the summer off in preparation for the September stampede.

I am also concerned that DPS will not be quick in responding to this change, and we will be scrambling to figure out how to manage the same class material in a shorter time, while still meeting DPS requirements.

I haven't had any cancellations, but I am making sure that I have at least a break-even point for my summer classes. I'm getting into prep mode for that September stampede as well. I just don't see where I am going to be able to really cut down the curriculum without teaching the test. It's do-able, I know, but really hard when you think all the information is good information!

TBM

Think about what you are required to teach as opposed to what you think it's good for the students to know. Use of force; non violent dispute resolution; handgun use; and safe and proper storage of handguns and ammunition are all that's required. The rest is fluff. Handgun use and safe and proper storage of handguns shouldn't take more than an hour.

That leaves you an hour and a half each for use of force and non violent dispute resolution. IMO both should get equal time. Note that there is no requirement to teach chl laws regarding prohibited locations, proper behavior in public, types of holsters, types of weapons, forms of concealment, and all those types of things that commonly get covered.

If I were an instructor, I would put together a small booklet about things you should know about having a CHL that I am not required to teach. I would hand that out at the end of every class along with the DPS TEXAS CONCEALED HANDGUN LAWS AND SELECTED STATUTES. And I would tell them, it is your responsibility as a CHL licensee to know all the laws and to fully understand your responsibilities. These booklets should serve as a reference and guide to assist you in learning what you need to know.

At the beginning I would cover handgun use and safe and proper storage. I would ask for a show of hands; how many have never touched a gun before? How many feel comfortable that they are handling guns in a safe manner? Then I would state that the goal of this hour is to get every one of you to the point that you will never handle a gun in an unsafe manner.

Next I would do non violent dispute resolution. I would finish with use of force. That way the class begins by stressing proper and safe handling of firearms, leads into non violent dispute resolution (because I just taught them how serious firearm ownership is and how easily someone can be hurt through improper handling and therefore deadly force should be a deliberate choice as well as the last resort.) Then, the last section of the class would be structured like this: You've learned proper handling and safety, you've learned how to avoid violent encounters, now let's talk about what you can and should do and what the law permits you to do when you have no options left and must use deadly force.

I'd probably do the range work between non violent dispute resolution and use of force. So, class begins at 8:30. Break at 9:30. Resume at 9:45 and go to 11:15 with a break at the half-way point. Break for lunch. Meet at the range at 1:15. Shoot until done. Resume class for 1 and 1/2 hours to complete the use of force section. Then administer the test and hand out certificates.

I don't think proper handgun use; and safe and proper storage of handguns and ammunition is what needs to be covered at all in a CHL class. Those topics belong on a firearm safety class. The only requirements for the CHL class are non-violent dispute resolution, use of force, and CHL laws.

I have said many times that a CHL class should not be an "introduction to firearms" class.

[Gunner4640]

Yes thank you Mr.Cotton for all your hard work and a great forum

[JustMe]

[
I don't think proper handgun use; and safe and proper storage of handguns and ammunition is what needs to be covered at all in a CHL class. Those topics belong on a firearm safety class. The only requirements for the CHL class are non-violent dispute resolution, use of force, and CHL laws. [/quote]


The 4 REQUIRED topics are non-violent dispute resolution, use of force, safety&storage, Basic handgun skills

[OldGrumpy]

This indeed great news. And a big thanks to Mr. Cotton for all of his hard work!

[baldeagle]

I don't think proper handgun use; and safe and proper storage of handguns and ammunition is what needs to be covered at all in a CHL class. Those topics belong on a firearm safety class. The only requirements for the CHL class are non-violent dispute resolution, use of force, and CHL laws.

Don't argue with me. Argue with DPS - https://www.txdps.state.tx.us/RSD/CHL/faqs/index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There are four (4) required topics: use of force; non violent dispute resolution; handgun use; and safe and proper storage of handguns and ammunition. Additional topics may be taught as well.

You'll notice, I hope, that CHL laws are NOT included.

[JJVP]

I don't think proper handgun use; and safe and proper storage of handguns and ammunition is what needs to be covered at all in a CHL class. Those topics belong on a firearm safety class. The only requirements for the CHL class are non-violent dispute resolution, use of force, and CHL laws.

Don't argue with me. Argue with DPS - https://www.txdps.state.tx.us/RSD/CHL/faqs/index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There are four (4) required topics: use of force; non violent dispute resolution; handgun use; and safe and proper storage of handguns and ammunition. Additional topics may be taught as well.

You'll notice, I hope, that CHL laws are NOT included.

I find it strange that someone being taught a CHL class is not required to learn the laws which govern that license. I don't recall, when I took my CHL class 4 years ago, that the topic about storage of handguns and ammunition, other than related to the law about keeping unattended guns away from children, was discussed. We however, discussed at lengths the CHL laws that we were now required to abide by. I have talked to other CHL'ers, that have taken classes with other instructors, and other that conflict resolution, the CHL laws was the major topic.

I also fail to understand how covering the use of force does not require knowing the law that covers the use of force. But then again, it is the government, so it does not have to make sense.

[The_Busy_Mom]

I don't think proper handgun use; and safe and proper storage of handguns and ammunition is what needs to be covered at all in a CHL class. Those topics belong on a firearm safety class. The only requirements for the CHL class are non-violent dispute resolution, use of force, and CHL laws.

Don't argue with me. Argue with DPS - https://www.txdps.state.tx.us/RSD/CHL/faqs/index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There are four (4) required topics: use of force; non violent dispute resolution; handgun use; and safe and proper storage of handguns and ammunition. Additional topics may be taught as well.

You'll notice, I hope, that CHL laws are NOT included.

I find it strange that someone being taught a CHL class is not required to learn the laws which govern that license. I don't recall, when I took my CHL class 4 years ago, that the topic about storage of handguns and ammunition, other than related to the law about keeping unattended guns away from children, was discussed. We however, discussed at lengths the CHL laws that we were now required to abide by. I have talked to other CHL'ers, that have taken classes with other instructors, and other that conflict resolution, the CHL laws was the major topic.

I also fail to understand how covering the use of force does not require knowing the law that covers the use of force. But then again, it is the government, so it does not have to make sense.

So I think we need to make sure we are comparing apples to apples. In my class, I have only one 30-minute module that I call fluff - it is my module on concealment options. Everything else is information found in either the the required 4 topics, or found on the test. I am required to teach Non-Violent Dispute Resolution, Safe Storage, Handgun Use/Proficiency, and the laws that relate to carrying a handgun/laws that relate to deadly force. But guess what. A majority of the test questions do not fall into either 4 of these groups. That is 36% of the tested questions would be bypassed if you are only teaching these 4 topics. This 36% is CHL regulations. Not laws, but regulations. Like, how many days do you have to report an address change, or how many times can you violate the same regulation before you get suspended or revoked. So I make sure that my students know everything on the test, not just the 4 topics I am required to teach. With the reduction in hours, I will be teaching the test, and definitely leaving out some other things like concealment options. Or, I will be opting for the whole, here's a booklet with some more info, approach. I am a teacher by trade, so I will just have to sit down, weigh the options, and take a hacksaw to it! Or maybe DPS will issue some different guidelines before that time comes.

Next I would do non violent dispute resolution. I would finish with use of force. That way the class begins by stressing proper and safe handling of firearms, leads into non violent dispute resolution (because I just taught them how serious firearm ownership is and how easily someone can be hurt through improper handling and therefore deadly force should be a deliberate choice as well as the last resort.) Then, the last section of the class would be structured like this: You've learned proper handling and safety, you've learned how to avoid violent encounters, now let's talk about what you can and should do and what the law permits you to do when you have no options left and must use deadly force.

I'd probably do the range work between non violent dispute resolution and use of force. So, class begins at 8:30. Break at 9:30. Resume at 9:45 and go to 11:15 with a break at the half-way point. Break for lunch. Meet at the range at 1:15. Shoot until done. Resume class for 1 and 1/2 hours to complete the use of force section. Then administer the test and hand out certificates.

And with your time allotments, you have left out 36% of the test questions. Not picking on Bald Eagle, but this is what people who are not instructors don't see. So now it is up to DPS to either revamp the requirements for curriculum, or revamp the requirements for the test.

And as far as fees are concerned, most are correct in their statements that half the time doesn't necessarily mean half of the expense. It really depends on your set-up. I rent classroom and range space, so half the time doesn't mean I only have half the rental space expense. A class is only as good as the person teaching it; doesn't matter what the curriculum is, so you are paying (somewhat) for the experience and teaching ability of the instructor. When I left my initial CHL class, I had all kinds of questions, and felt like the class was a let-down. But I can tell you that a high percentage of my students from my last class liked Non-Violent Dispute the most. Why? Because of how I teach it. And that's how I want my students to feel when they walk away - like they got the best that their money could buy, and that it was WORTH it.

I think the reduction in class hours, coupled with the elimination of the renewal class, is going to separate the hobbyists from the instructors. There's nothing wrong with being a hobby instructor, because doing what makes you happy shows. But it will be the instructors who dedicate a little more time and effort who will hold on in the long run.

TBM

[jmra]

So, how long is your renewal class? I doubt anyone's renewal class is more than 6 hours. You are required to cover the same material in your renewal class as you are in the initial class. So why not take your renewal class and make it your initial class?

BTW, I don't have a dog in this fight because I don't have to attend those classes anymore.

[gdanaher]

Concerning instructors losing business in May and June in anticipation of September, I just don't comprehend how someone would be so concerned about 4-5 hours extra time under the current law as opposed to the possible consequences of not having the license during that period of time. I know that is what spurred the time reduction--bored students and only being able to say the same thing so many times, but if you want a chl, why sit back until September just to save a few hours now?

[The_Busy_Mom]

So, how long is your renewal class? I doubt anyone's renewal class is more than 6 hours. You are required to cover the same material in your renewal class as you are in the initial class. So why not take your renewal class and make it your initial class?

BTW, I don't have a dog in this fight because I don't have to attend those classes anymore.

Wrong. I am required to teach 1 of the 4 topics in a renewal class - laws that pertain to weapons/deadly force. The test is still the same, however. So what you wind up with is instructors like my initial, who gave an open-book test. And believe me, that instructor was not teaching the full 10 hours of an initial. The instructor had the renewals arrive at lunch, gave them the info we had already covered in the morning, and then carried on. But you have to remember that renewals have already seen this information once before; it truly is a refresher. You aren't teaching renewals brand new information like you are initials. It's the initials that have the potential to be losing out. I'm not trying to make a case for no reduction - I believe in the reduction of the hours. But there will have to be some change in the way I present the material. And now that my hand is forced, I'll be making those changes sooner rather than later.

TBM

[The_Busy_Mom]

Concerning instructors losing business in May and June in anticipation of September, I just don't comprehend how someone would be so concerned about 4-5 hours extra time under the current law as opposed to the possible consequences of not having the license during that period of time. I know that is what spurred the time reduction--bored students and only being able to say the same thing so many times, but if you want a chl, why sit back until September just to save a few hours now?

I agree with you, but let me tell you what some potential students have expressed.

These students believe the cost is literally going to be cut in half, the time commitment is going to be cut in half, and therefore their money can go further. With the shortage of ammo, healthcare costs skyrocketing, and a certain unknown about our immediate economical future, a lot of people are really holding off on doing things that take a big chunk of cash at one time. If you think about it, right now, the average cost of application, class, and fingerprints is about $230-$250. The risk vs. available cash in the budget is causing people to hold off, especially if they think that the cost is getting ready to drop by 50%. I have students in my June class for whom I am already 'ammo hunting' because of the scarcity of 9mm & .380.

TBM

[RX8er]

I'll start by saying that I am not an instructor but happen to know one pretty well.

It's been said before. Just because the class time is cut in half does not mean the work is. I am a firm believer in "you pay for what you get." I am not saying the "cheap ones" or maybe I should say less expensive ones to be fair, are any less of a class. From my own experiences and the people I have spoken with, the ones that elected to take the less expensive class have very similar complaints. The ones who took the more expensive class have the same compliments. Does this make it a rule? Nope but it is what I have to go on.

I understand the workload that goes in to being an instructor for the before and after portion of a class, not just what the student sees in the middle. Range fees, classroom fees, instructor certification, Notary, business fees and taxes, printed materials, the list goes on and one and on. With that said, I could see fees reduced a little for those instructors that provide lunch, snacks and drinks if those will not be provided, or no lunch and half the amount of water and snacks.

You can take my $.02 and use that towards the next CHL renewal class.