Major advancements for Texas CHL holders

[KC5AV]

REASON FOR VOTE

Senator Birdwell submitted the following reason for vote on
HB 508
:
Today, I voted against House Bill 508, which would prohibit a state agency or
political subdivision from providing false notice to a CHL-holder that entering certain
government premises with a concealed handgun is prohibited. Though I initially
supported the bill, I ultimately voted against it due to the addition of an amendment
allowing CHL-holding elected officials to carry their firearms in all locations
prohibited to regular citizens. Though I am an unwavering proponent of Second
Amendment rights, I could not in good conscience grant myself a privilege that I had
failed to first grant law-abiding citizens. Concealed Handgun License holders are
allowed to carry almost everywhere they go. In my judgment, if we are going to
expand when and where Texans can legally carry a concealed firearm, we should start
with our citizens–not our lawmakers.
BIRDWELL

Your thoughts?

I agree with Birdwell. If memory serves, the Austin Elitist (our Sen & House Reps) tried something similar
last session. I definitely like the original idea behind HB508. Too bad John Corona ruined it.

I also agree with Bridwell, in principle. I don't think they should have rights that we don't enjoy, but if this passes as amended, that amendment can be [hopefully] used to our advantage in the next session.

[CainA]

I agree in principle, too. He surely comes off as being sincere in what he wrote and I'll buy it, but I'd still like to see HB508 pass.

[JJVP]

REASON FOR VOTE

Senator Birdwell submitted the following reason for vote on
HB 508
:
Today, I voted against House Bill 508, which would prohibit a state agency or
political subdivision from providing false notice to a CHL-holder that entering certain
government premises with a concealed handgun is prohibited. Though I initially
supported the bill, I ultimately voted against it due to the addition of an amendment
allowing CHL-holding elected officials to carry their firearms in all locations
prohibited to regular citizens. Though I am an unwavering proponent of Second
Amendment rights, I could not in good conscience grant myself a privilege that I had
failed to first grant law-abiding citizens. Concealed Handgun License holders are
allowed to carry almost everywhere they go. In my judgment, if we are going to
expand when and where Texans can legally carry a concealed firearm, we should start
with our citizens–not our lawmakers.
BIRDWELL

Your thoughts?

I agree with Birdwell. If memory serves, the Austin Elitist (our Sen & House Reps) tried something similar
last session. I definitely like the original idea behind HB508. Too bad John Corona ruined it.

You are correct. They tried something similar last session. I oppose any law that gives our elective officials rights that are denied to the rest of us. If is good for them, is good for us.

[nightmare69]

So these bills have passed and been signed by Perry and will be put into effect September 1st?

[Keith B]

So these bills have passed and been signed by Perry and will be put into effect September 1st?

They have yet to be signed by the Governor, but will go into effect Sept 1.

[jiannichan]

So my license expired last month, but I also have my AZ non-resident license to hold me over. I have already submitted application and renewal fee online. Should I just wait until Sept or will this only be valid for license holders after the bill goes into effect?? I just haven't had time to take the renewal class.

[CainA]

So my license expired last month, but I also have my AZ non-resident license to hold me over. I have already submitted application and renewal fee online. Should I just wait until Sept or will this only be valid for license holders after the bill goes into effect?? I just haven't had time to take the renewal class.

Here's what Mr. Cotton wrote in another thread regarding 'grandfathering':

Mr. Cotton wrote:

No, there is no grandfather provision. In fact, HB48 expressly states, " To renew a license, a license holder must , on or before the date the license expires, . . . " The emphasized phrase is new, whereas the current language allows a person to renewal a license after expiration. DPS has generously agreed by rule to allow people to renew up to one year after expiration. The express language of HB48 requires renewal prior to or on the date of expiration and it also requires that this be made possible purely online. So theoretically a person could renew on their birthday when their CHL would otherwise expire. This does not mean your CHL is good at that point. You still have to wait for the new license.

[jiannichan]

Thanks for the info. I had a feeling about that.

[The_Busy_Mom]

I am not real concerned about the loss of revenue from renewal students.

What I AM concerned about is making it through the summer. Students have cancelled classes right and left for May and June so they can wait for the shorter class in September. So, we might be taking the summer off in preparation for the September stampede.

I am also concerned that DPS will not be quick in responding to this change, and we will be scrambling to figure out how to manage the same class material in a shorter time, while still meeting DPS requirements.

I haven't had any cancellations, but I am making sure that I have at least a break-even point for my summer classes. I'm getting into prep mode for that September stampede as well. I just don't see where I am going to be able to really cut down the curriculum without teaching the test. It's do-able, I know, but really hard when you think all the information is good information!

TBM

[nightmare69]

I haven't had any cancellations, but I am making sure that I have at least a break-even point for my summer classes. I'm getting into prep mode for that September stampede as well. I just don't see where I am going to be able to really cut down the curriculum without teaching the test. It's do-able, I know, but really hard when you think all the information is good information!

TBM

My question for yall CHL instructors is, are yall going to reduce your fee? Since you are no longer going to have to teach for 10hrs the fee should be reduced significantly. Half the time, half the price. When I took the course it was $100, Im sure come September the price will be dropping.

[dave_in_austin]

My question for yall CHL instructors is, are yall going to reduce your fee? Since you are no longer going to have to teach for 10hrs the fee should be reduced significantly. Half the time, half the price. When I took the course it was $100, Im sure come September the price will be dropping.

Expecting half of the price for half of the time is not reasonable. You are paying for much more than your instructor's in-class time when you pay your class tuition. Just because the instructor spend only half as much time with you does not mean that his expenses are half as much.

[Charles L. Cotton]

My question for yall CHL instructors is, are yall going to reduce your fee? Since you are no longer going to have to teach for 10hrs the fee should be reduced significantly. Half the time, half the price. When I took the course it was $100, Im sure come September the price will be dropping.

Expecting half of the price for half of the time is not reasonable. You are paying for much more than your instructor's in-class time when you pay your class tuition. Just because the instructor spend only half as much time with you does not mean that his expenses are half as much.

Although I'm not going to take a position on the appropriate price for a class, I agree with Dave. There are fixed expenses to giving a class that will not change based upon the classroom hours. Plus, you aren't hiring an instructor by the hour, you're paying for a class.

Class prices already vary widely around the State, so I'm certain some instructors will reduce prices and some will not. Some people will chose an instructor based on price alone, some will consider other factors. My personal view of selecting an instructor solely on price is that it's somewhat like a governmental entity selecting the lowest bidder to build roads. You may save money initially, but be ready to spend more filling potholes for the next 30 years.

Chas.

[nightmare69]

Expecting half of the price for half of the time is not reasonable. You are paying for much more than your instructor's in-class time when you pay your class tuition. Just because the instructor spend only half as much time with you does not mean that his expenses are half as much.

Although I'm not going to take a position on the appropriate price for a class, I agree with Dave. There are fixed expenses to giving a class that will not change based upon the classroom hours. Plus, you aren't hiring an instructor by the hour, you're paying for a class.

Class prices already vary widely around the State, so I'm certain some instructors will reduce prices and some will not. Some people will chose an instructor based on price alone, some will consider other factors. My personal view of selecting an instructor solely on price is that it's somewhat like a governmental entity selecting the lowest bidder to build roads. You may save money initially, but be ready to spend more filling potholes for the next 30 years.

Chas.

Gotcha, I know a few people who want to get a CHL but the cost of the entire process is keeping them from it.

[baldeagle]

I am not real concerned about the loss of revenue from renewal students.

What I AM concerned about is making it through the summer. Students have cancelled classes right and left for May and June so they can wait for the shorter class in September. So, we might be taking the summer off in preparation for the September stampede.

I am also concerned that DPS will not be quick in responding to this change, and we will be scrambling to figure out how to manage the same class material in a shorter time, while still meeting DPS requirements.

I haven't had any cancellations, but I am making sure that I have at least a break-even point for my summer classes. I'm getting into prep mode for that September stampede as well. I just don't see where I am going to be able to really cut down the curriculum without teaching the test. It's do-able, I know, but really hard when you think all the information is good information!

TBM

Think about what you are required to teach as opposed to what you think it's good for the students to know. Use of force; non violent dispute resolution; handgun use; and safe and proper storage of handguns and ammunition are all that's required. The rest is fluff. Handgun use and safe and proper storage of handguns shouldn't take more than an hour.

That leaves you an hour and a half each for use of force and non violent dispute resolution. IMO both should get equal time. Note that there is no requirement to teach chl laws regarding prohibited locations, proper behavior in public, types of holsters, types of weapons, forms of concealment, and all those types of things that commonly get covered.

If I were an instructor, I would put together a small booklet about things you should know about having a CHL that I am not required to teach. I would hand that out at the end of every class along with the DPS TEXAS CONCEALED HANDGUN LAWS AND SELECTED STATUTES. And I would tell them, it is your responsibility as a CHL licensee to know all the laws and to fully understand your responsibilities. These booklets should serve as a reference and guide to assist you in learning what you need to know.

At the beginning I would cover handgun use and safe and proper storage. I would ask for a show of hands; how many have never touched a gun before? How many feel comfortable that they are handling guns in a safe manner? Then I would state that the goal of this hour is to get every one of you to the point that you will never handle a gun in an unsafe manner.

Next I would do non violent dispute resolution. I would finish with use of force. That way the class begins by stressing proper and safe handling of firearms, leads into non violent dispute resolution (because I just taught them how serious firearm ownership is and how easily someone can be hurt through improper handling and therefore deadly force should be a deliberate choice as well as the last resort.) Then, the last section of the class would be structured like this: You've learned proper handling and safety, you've learned how to avoid violent encounters, now let's talk about what you can and should do and what the law permits you to do when you have no options left and must use deadly force.

I'd probably do the range work between non violent dispute resolution and use of force. So, class begins at 8:30. Break at 9:30. Resume at 9:45 and go to 11:15 with a break at the half-way point. Break for lunch. Meet at the range at 1:15. Shoot until done. Resume class for 1 and 1/2 hours to complete the use of force section. Then administer the test and hand out certificates.

[longtooth]

I haven't had any cancellations, but I am making sure that I have at least a break-even point for my summer classes. I'm getting into prep mode for that September stampede as well. I just don't see where I am going to be able to really cut down the curriculum without teaching the test. It's do-able, I know, but really hard when you think all the information is good information!

TBM

My question for yall CHL instructors is, are yall going to reduce your fee? Since you are no longer going to have to teach for 10hrs the fee should be reduced significantly. Half the time, half the price. When I took the course it was $100, Im sure come September the price will be dropping.

I am going to look at it but not even one dollar of my expences is going to deminish. All before class work will be the same as before & after class paperwork & range clean up will be the same. All I see is a shorter class for me too. No expense relief so dont see it being a 40% cut for sure.