Carrying around OPC (Other People's Children)?

[The Annoyed Man]

Well, for one thing, concealed is concealed. No anti-gun parent is going to know I'm carrying, unless I were dumb enough to tell them.

For anther thing, if my own kids are involved, I'd be carrying, regardless of what some other parent thinks. Their kids' safety is important. My own kids' safety is more important. So if they did find out, and they didn't want their kids to ride in my car, that's fine. One less thing...

Both my wife and I carry in church, and I carry on stage during the worship segments. We sit together (both armed) during the first service. During our second services, my wife volunteers with the bambinos. She loves her some bambinos. But since she can't be absolutely certain on any given Sunday that a child won't somehow get into her purse, she disarms before going into the "Creation Land" area and locks her gun in the console of her car. But then she's down on the floor with the little ones (in her classroom, they are all in the 18 month to 2 yr old range) playing with them and so on, so she feels it is safer without the gun then. Even so, After I come off the stage during the second service, I'm usually hanging out on a sofa in the lobby, right outside Creation Land, and I am armed. Nobody is going to harm those kids or my wife if I can help it.

Thanks TAM, that makes since - mostly. Given the number of times we play carpool and taxi - it is entirely conceivable that the information could be forced into the open by a routine traffic stop. Even though it is unlikely, it is not so rare that I can convince myself I don't need to be prepared for the consequence of some friend of my children finding out and telling their parents.

The other scenario, as I mentioned, is when I would be forced to disarm in the car because I am about to enter a school sporting activity to which I have just given rides. The only solutions I can think of is the pretend to forget something in the car on the way in or tell them to go on in and I will follow. Not a huge deal, but a little awkward nonetheless.

If I carry 24/7 (except to work - where I can't even have it in the parking lot - currently), then the 'rides to a school event' scenario will happen - there is no way around it.

One thing you could do for when you're carrying children is to make up a simple little card to hand to the officer along with your CHL and TDL that says, "I am carpooling children. Some of them are not mine. The ones that are not don't know I'm armed, and I'd very much like to keep it that way." Nobody has to know about it except you and the officer.

If he is a mensch, he'll understand and let it go.

[shootthesheet]

It is not my responsibility to give up my rights so someone else can feel better. It is their responsibility to voice their concerns and not mine to volunteer information to them. I look at it like the posting law for CHL holders. If a person is anti-freedom they have the responsibility to let it be known and I will respect their wishes. Otherwise they have no objections.

Keeping and bearing arms is a right equal to any other and it is time we make that part of our thought process and do away with the lies we have been conditioned to believe. Our social responsibilities end at safety. As long as we are safe and obey the laws we have done all that is necessary to exercise our rights as civilized people. It is not necessary to deny ourselves our God given rights for some very false belief that not to do so would be somehow disrespectful or would in any way deny someone else of their rights. That goes for everyone to include a parent who has a choice to let their kids be around me or not.

[Charles L. Cotton]

It is not my responsibility to give up my rights so someone else can feel better. It is their responsibility to voice their concerns and not mine to volunteer information to them. I look at it like the posting law for CHL holders. If a person is anti-freedom they have the responsibility to let it be known and I will respect their wishes. Otherwise they have no objections.

Keeping and bearing arms is a right equal to any other and it is time we make that part of our thought process and do away with the lies we have been conditioned to believe. Our social responsibilities end at safety. As long as we are safe and obey the laws we have done all that is necessary to exercise our rights as civilized people. It is not necessary to deny ourselves our God given rights for some very false belief that not to do so would be somehow disrespectful or would in any way deny someone else of their rights. That goes for everyone to include a parent who has a choice to let their kids be around me or not.

The OP's question was/is a reasonable inquiry by a new CHL. He was simply asking what is proper etiquette when going armed around other people's children. I applaud his action.

Chas.

[The Annoyed Man]

It is not my responsibility to give up my rights so someone else can feel better. It is their responsibility to voice their concerns and not mine to volunteer information to them. I look at it like the posting law for CHL holders. If a person is anti-freedom they have the responsibility to let it be known and I will respect their wishes. Otherwise they have no objections.

Keeping and bearing arms is a right equal to any other and it is time we make that part of our thought process and do away with the lies we have been conditioned to believe. Our social responsibilities end at safety. As long as we are safe and obey the laws we have done all that is necessary to exercise our rights as civilized people. It is not necessary to deny ourselves our God given rights for some very false belief that not to do so would be somehow disrespectful or would in any way deny someone else of their rights. That goes for everyone to include a parent who has a choice to let their kids be around me or not.

The OP's question was/is a reasonable inquiry by a new CHL. He was simply asking what is proper etiquette when going armed around other people's children. I applaud his action.

Chas.

Bingo. And further, it is constructive to offer possible solutions to his dilema. He's just trying to do the right thing.

[terryg]

It is not my responsibility to give up my rights so someone else can feel better. It is their responsibility to voice their concerns and not mine to volunteer information to them. I look at it like the posting law for CHL holders. If a person is anti-freedom they have the responsibility to let it be known and I will respect their wishes. Otherwise they have no objections.

Keeping and bearing arms is a right equal to any other and it is time we make that part of our thought process and do away with the lies we have been conditioned to believe. Our social responsibilities end at safety. As long as we are safe and obey the laws we have done all that is necessary to exercise our rights as civilized people. It is not necessary to deny ourselves our God given rights for some very false belief that not to do so would be somehow disrespectful or would in any way deny someone else of their rights. That goes for everyone to include a parent who has a choice to let their kids be around me or not.

If your *only* concern is whether or not you are following the letter of the law - then you indeed have no obligation to consider the question of parental sovereignty as it applies to your decisions (even legal ones) while around other peoples children. If, on the other hand a strained or broken relationship between you, your children, and another family is something that might trouble you; then you should at least consider the various possible outcomes of that decision. Once you have weighed the possible outcomes, you may and probably will, still feel like you are making the best decision for your situation. But in the face of that decision - you still should be prepared for all possible outcomes:

The Good:

I work with our student ministry at First Baptist Church - Friendswood so I'm carrying around a lot of kids. I can't say that every parent knows I'm carrying, but unless they are brand new to our church, I can't imagine there is one that doesn't know. I've never had a single one complain, even from people who I know are afraid of guns. On the other hand, I've had a lot of parents tell me they're glad I'm there and some are especially grateful when we go on field trips.

Our "small group" program meets in the homes of people who volunteer their homes for our meetings. I carry in all of them also. Again, everyone knows it because it's common knowledge that "if you see Cotton, he's carrying." I don't talk about it; I don't ask permission, I just wear my gun like my watch -- I never think about it.

If someone were to tell me they didn't want me carrying my gun when their kid was with me, then I'm afraid I'd just have to invite them to take their kid to the movies while the rest of us did something else. It's certainly the parents' right, but I won't disarm and leave myself and the kids parents expect me to protect defenseless.

Chas.

and the bad:

I know of an anti-gun family finding out that a CHL mom was carrying when around their kids and it wasn't pretty. I think what you do to lesson their concerns depends on how much you value the relationship. Definitely make it clear to your kids that it isn't a topic that we discuss with others. I have a huge issue with asking kids to keep a "secret" so I explain the difference between privacy and secrecy and I tell them that this is a private matter when something like that comes up. I then use the opportunity to go over what they should do if an adult ever asks them to keep a secret.

However, I also have some issues with my kids being around gun owners who aren't as careful as I think they should be. I am particularly concerned about guns that are in purses that are left unattended, inside car holsters that aren't locked, in the master bedroom nightstand drawer when kids are in and out of the bedroom, or other easily accessible places. I teach them gun safety, but it seems like an inordinate risk to take and I do limit their activities around those I don't think are careful enough with guns when children are around.

As I parent, there are some CHL holders that I am sure - do not adhere to my standards of weapon handling. As long as they leave it alone - it shouldn't be a problem and perhaps I am better off if I don't know. But you can't escape the fact that weapons are powerful tools. Not everyone will feel the same about them.

The concepts of parental sovereignty and misplaced trust doesn't just apply to weapons. My co-worker relayed a story about how his daughter was invited to spend the night with a neighborhood kid. They knew the family fairly well - about as well as you would know any neighborhood family. They took her out to eat that night and were somewhat shocked the next day to find that they went to eat at Hooters. Now many of you many not find that to be a big deal - the other family obviously didn't. But to my co-worker, while not a strip-club or anything, Hooters would certainly not be on his list of family restaurants. It wasn't the end of the world, but clearly shows how different perceptions can be from one family to the next.

To so quickly dismiss the concerns that a parent may have over their child being in the presence of a weapon strictly on the basis of legal rights and your own opinion over which condition (armed vs unarmed) is safer - does not seem wise to me. Perhaps the other parent has indeed "been conditioned to believe" something that is not true. But that will not change overnight and they are only attempting to act, and make decisions, in the best interest of their child. We should at least give that position a little thought and respect before dismissing it out of hand.

[Edited to correct some grammatical errors - terryg]

[VMI77]

It is not my responsibility to give up my rights so someone else can feel better. It is their responsibility to voice their concerns and not mine to volunteer information to them. I look at it like the posting law for CHL holders. If a person is anti-freedom they have the responsibility to let it be known and I will respect their wishes. Otherwise they have no objections.

Keeping and bearing arms is a right equal to any other and it is time we make that part of our thought process and do away with the lies we have been conditioned to believe. Our social responsibilities end at safety. As long as we are safe and obey the laws we have done all that is necessary to exercise our rights as civilized people. It is not necessary to deny ourselves our God given rights for some very false belief that not to do so would be somehow disrespectful or would in any way deny someone else of their rights. That goes for everyone to include a parent who has a choice to let their kids be around me or not.

The OP's question was/is a reasonable inquiry by a new CHL. He was simply asking what is proper etiquette when going armed around other people's children. I applaud his action.

Chas.

It also initiated an informative discussion.

[phrogg]

They know the code words I use with my family to refer to my concealed weapon.

Thanks phrogg. Any chance you would be willing to share the code words you use - or more importantly - the context in which you use them?

The code word is to ask about the newspaper. I'm pretty electronic in all my dealings these days and believe that newspapers will simply die off soon so having a physical newspaper isn't something I'm likely to have so it can be referred to and I know what they are talking about immediately.

I.e. did you get the newspaper this morning? I saw you had read the front page of the newspaper this morning when you bent over to grab that box. Stuff like that which lets us speak about things without...speaking of them.

[SecedeTX]

I have a 6 year old and a 9 year old. We are socially involved with LOTS of people because of the kiddos. I carry at all times, when it is legal. The thing is, I would guess that almost none of our neighborhood families know that I carry, and I plan on making it a non-issue by not making it public knowledge.

My kids know to refer to my gun by a secret word, and they know not to tell anybody else.

When you have kids in the house (trained or untrained) you need to either have the firearm on you, or locked down.

Call it a "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

[terryg]

The code word is to ask about the newspaper. I'm pretty electronic in all my dealings these days and believe that newspapers will simply die off soon so having a physical newspaper isn't something I'm likely to have so it can be referred to and I know what they are talking about immediately.

I.e. did you get the newspaper this morning? I saw you had read the front page of the newspaper this morning when you bent over to grab that box. Stuff like that which lets us speak about things without...speaking of them.

That's pretty clever - thank you for sharing.

When you have kids in the house (trained or untrained) you need to either have the firearm on you, or locked down.

Oh yes, as I posted earlier:

Yes, of course. There is never a firearm that is not either on my person or locked away. I have only just gotten my CHL, but I have had secure weapons in the house since they were young children.

[WildBill]

The concepts of parental sovereignty and misplaced trust doesn't just apply to weapons. They took her out to eat that night and were somewhat shocked the next day to find that they went to eat at Hooters. Now many of you many not find that to be a big deal - the other family obviously didn't. But to my co-worker, while not a strip-club or anything, Hooters would certainly not be on his list of family restaurants. It wasn't the end of the world, but clearly shows how different perceptions can be from one family to the next. -terryg

This is excellent. The "dangerous element of guns" is removed from the argument and replaced by another perceived "danger", high school girls in skimpy outfits.
I will use this example very soon.

[RPB]

I'm uncomfortable at any time or location when I'd not be able to protect any child, no matter whose child it is. That said, I don't carry where it is not legal to do so.

I was amused at a church north of Lubbock when after services a bunch of kids were playing in the sanctuary (or napping on their mom's laps etc etc) and the Pastor and Deacons and guest preachers were sitting around discussing guns and most were armed and I mentioned my Glock's internal laser, and "people in control of that premises" said show us the laser, I looked at all the people and their kids in their and said "OK, lets go in a bathroom or somewhere private" and they said "no just pull it out and show us all here, we are all licensed and carrying, it's our church building and we want to see it"

[Dan20703]

"no just pull it out and show us all here, we are all licensed and carrying, it's our church building and we want to see it"

Now that would really put a big smile on my face if I was there!