What did you NOT like about your Concealed Carry class?

[Braden]

That's interesting. My instructor discussed the answer to each of the questions AFTER the test while we each graded the score sheet of the guy next to us, but nothing was said DURING the test.

With your comments about his arrogance though I think my instructor and your instructor must be related.

[propellerhead]

Wow! Our class took the test the way a test was meant to be taken. You're on your own and you were armed with what you just learned that day.

The only thing I didn't like about my class was the conflict resolution stuff. It sounded like a college speech class. I think ours went too far from the real conflict resolution and got too academic.

One thing I would like to see is to break up the shooting portion into 2 or 3 smaller sessions and spread those out during the day. Like do 1/3 of the shooting session in the middle of the morning, then another 1/3 before lunch, then another 1/3 in the middle of the afternoon. Unless the state mandates one shooting session at the end of the day, this might be a good way to break the monotony. Heck, include a practice shooting session if time permits.

[txinvestigator]

Wow! Our class took the test the way a test was meant to be taken. You're on your own and you were armed with what you just learned that day.

The only thing I didn't like about my class was the conflict resolution stuff. It sounded like a college speech class. I think ours went too far from the real conflict resolution and got too academic.

One thing I would like to see is to break up the shooting portion into 2 or 3 smaller sessions and spread those out during the day. Like do 1/3 of the shooting session in the middle of the morning, then another 1/3 before lunch, then another 1/3 in the middle of the afternoon. Unless the state mandates one shooting session at the end of the day, this might be a good way to break the monotony. Heck, include a practice shooting session if time permits.

Do you mean break the class up into 3 groups, or do the shooting 3 different times? Like 3 yards, back to class, 7 yards back to class, then 15 yards later.

[Texasdoc]

well to start off with I know there is no way to stop the Arm chair Lawyers and there been there done that stories. but god help us on this one.

2nd its the way we shoot, I think you should have to fire at 3,7,10,15,25 like we did when I was a LEO.

3rd. is I think the class should be like the Hunter Ed. Class I teach over 2 days and make the class have a practical test on Gun handling .

4th. if instructors would learn not to talk in a mono tone, and add a bit of practical hands on in the class as in you are faced with a Shot -No Shot .

OK you asked and here is what I think

300shooter

[propellerhead]

Do you mean break the class up into 3 groups, or do the shooting 3 different times? Like 3 yards, back to class, 7 yards back to class, then 15 yards later.

The latter. Run the intro part of the class including the handgun training. Then shoot at 3 yards. Go back to class for the rest of the morning session, then shoot the 7 yards right before the lunch break. Then shoot the 15 yards in the middle of the afternoon session. This will probably work if you have enough lanes and ranger officers to allow everyone to shoot together. If you have a large class and have to split up the shooting sessions, then it may take too much time. I don't know if that will have any negative effect on learning but it sure will break up the monotony.

[KBCraig]

I think you should have to fire at 3,7,10,15,25 like we did when I was a LEO.

I disagree (and I also have to shoot at those same distances for qualification).

There are darn few scenarios where a CHL would be justified in taking a shot at 25 yards. It's unusual enough in police work to take a pistol shot from that far.

I think shooting proficiency isn't something to worry about; safe handling is more important. If a student can safely load their handgun, fire five shots into a silhouette from 7 yards, reload, fire five more shots, then safely clear the gun, then that's adequate marksmanship. The most important part is safe gun handling. Instructors should be able to check a "gives me the willies" box on the certificate if they don't feel the student has demonstrated adequate safety.

Kevin

[Crossfire]

Run the intro part of the class including the handgun training. Then shoot at 3 yards. Go back to class for the rest of the morning session, then shoot the 7 yards right before the lunch break. Then shoot the 15 yards in the middle of the afternoon session.

I like the idea, but I don't think it would be manageable for me.

However, I do arrange my lesson plan so that shooting comes right after lunch. It seems to help by breaking up the classroom part and the students manage to stay awake better for the afternoon session.

Not that my classes are boring! But, you all know you can only take so much!

[Crossfire]

Instructors should be able to check a "gives me the willies" box on the certificate if they don't feel the student has demonstrated adequate safety.

A BIG second from me!

[Rich]

what did you NOT like about it? I enjoyed the CHL class
What could have been done better? More scenarios
Was the location comfortable? The seats? Refreshments? Chair could have been better
Was the instructor's style of presentation suitable? Yes
Were visual aids used? Yes, but PowerPoint would have been better
Was a course outline provided? Yes
Material for taking notes? Everything was provided.

[txinvestigator]

Do you mean break the class up into 3 groups, or do the shooting 3 different times? Like 3 yards, back to class, 7 yards back to class, then 15 yards later.

The latter. Run the intro part of the class including the handgun training. Then shoot at 3 yards. Go back to class for the rest of the morning session, then shoot the 7 yards right before the lunch break. Then shoot the 15 yards in the middle of the afternoon session. This will probably work if you have enough lanes and ranger officers to allow everyone to shoot together. If you have a large class and have to split up the shooting sessions, then it may take too much time. I don't know if that will have any negative effect on learning but it sure will break up the monotony.

For us, that would be a logistical nightmare.

[Rigby470]

Do you mean break the class up into 3 groups, or do the shooting 3 different times? Like 3 yards, back to class, 7 yards back to class, then 15 yards later.

The latter. Run the intro part of the class including the handgun training. Then shoot at 3 yards. Go back to class for the rest of the morning session, then shoot the 7 yards right before the lunch break. Then shoot the 15 yards in the middle of the afternoon session. This will probably work if you have enough lanes and ranger officers to allow everyone to shoot together. If you have a large class and have to split up the shooting sessions, then it may take too much time. I don't know if that will have any negative effect on learning but it sure will break up the monotony.

For us, that would be a logistical nightmare.

That would drive me crazy. We did all our shooting at 1 time fairly early in the morning so we wouldn't tie up the range for other people. There were some who were worried about the shooting part so it allowed them to go ahead and get it out of the way early.

I thought our class was handled very well. We had LOTS of short breaks. This helped more than you can possibly imagine.

[kw5kw]

Do you mean break the class up into 3 groups, or do the shooting 3 different times? Like 3 yards, back to class, 7 yards back to class, then 15 yards later.

The latter. Run the intro part of the class including the handgun training. Then shoot at 3 yards. Go back to class for the rest of the morning session, then shoot the 7 yards right before the lunch break. Then shoot the 15 yards in the middle of the afternoon session. This will probably work if you have enough lanes and ranger officers to allow everyone to shoot together. If you have a large class and have to split up the shooting sessions, then it may take too much time. I don't know if that will have any negative effect on learning but it sure will break up the monotony.

For us, that would be a logistical nightmare.

I'm not an instructor, but I could see how that could be true.
You'd have to keep the targets from becomming "soiled" inbetween sessions.

No, the better thing would be to take a group (assuming you're taking your class AT a range) of 5 or so during the first break, let them shoot all of their 50 rounds.

Do the next class session, take a different group of 5 at the next break, and they do their 50.

At lunch do 5 more--of course they do all of their 50.

Mid afternoon do 5 more, ditto on the 50.

and so on and so forth...

But each group does their entire 50 round qual. at one time, so you won't have to keep the targets from becomming 'soiled.'

[cyphur]

I think keeping the targets from being soiled would be the simple part. Tying up the whole range every few hours would be the tricky part even if you are having a class at a range. Also would depend on class size I would imagine.

[badgerw]

I posted the original questions on nine firearms-related forums on the net.

I got 198 responses in 36 hours, of which about 120 are of use.

I'll probably post some poll questions soon, as I digest the responses I got. Until then, here are a few observations:

1. Handling a broad range of students is important. Classes contain former military / law enforcement folks who are quite familiar with guns (and especially their own). They also contain folks who have never shot a gun.

2. Handling the "class clowns" is important.

3. Addressing the legal issues is important. Finding the right balance between giving a textbook answer and giving legal advice is tough.

4. People prefer clean, quiet classrooms with comfortable chairs. They like access to coffee, cold drinks, and snacks.

5. Visual aids, video presentations that are interesting and in small doses, and handouts are well liked.

6. For some people, class times other than the weekend are important.

7. Not surprisingly, many people would prefer more time on the range.

8. In states like Texas where photos, fingerprints, and notaries are required, people like "one stop shopping."

9. Above all, people want safe professional instructors who aren't dragging their egos along in Radio Flyer wagons.

Bill

[Diode]

Good job, interesting results.