State Park carry?

[RPB]

Email sent, will report results.
thanks

Any time
Post up any reply you get

[joe817]

My Lord RPB, you are giving me schizophrenia, just by trying to read some very technical, complicated and VERY well researched and answered legal questions!

I don't know whether to ,or , or while I'm . But I always go !

In all seriousness, thanks so much for trying to tackle a most perplexing dilemma.

[RPB]

My Lord RPB, you are giving me schizophrenia, just by trying to read some very technical, complicated and VERY well researched and answered legal questions!

I don't know whether to ,or , or while I'm . But I always go !

In all seriousness, thanks so much for trying to tackle a most perplexing dilemma.

LOL I gotta tellya, Our United States and State Represenatatives and Senators don't seem to understand it either. (Judging by some e-mail replies) They thought they cleared it all up in 2007 and 2009 with the LCRA-Lower Colorado River Authority Parks+State Parks+National Park+National/Federal Wildlife Preserve laws allowing carry, must not have thought about US Army Corps of Engineers .... and I'm not sure about OTHER River Authorities Parks/places to launch kayaks/picnic/camp etc etc ( See River Authorities http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/landwater/w ... ties.phtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; )

They need a US law, allowing carry on USACOE, and a GENERAL State law allowing carry at ANY River Authority property, excepting inside the premesis or within so many feet of the Power Plant or Power generating facility (Dam etc). However, some nut up there in Washington is occupying all their time with some crazy healthcare junk that he is pretending is for our own good, and of course, our State guys only meet every couple of years.


What is interesting is MANY of us launch kayaks and fish in the San Gabriel River (Brazos River Authority) where it is Ok to carry, along with Georgetown City Parks etc, but it crosses TWO USACOE lakes on the way .... so don't cross that imaginary line painted on the water with your gun....


Imagine a Kayaking CAMPING trip vacation .... along this( San Gabriel river Brazos River Authority) ... (LOTS of us do it every year)

There are two major impoundments of the river: Lake Georgetown along the North Fork, and Granger Lake, about 25 miles (40 km) below the confluence. Both are U.S. Army Corps of Engineers impoundments. The San Gabriel River eventually drains into the Brazos River northeast of College Station. There is a city park in Georgetown at the confluence of the North and South Forks.

"Example, Phone call for silliness' sake : Honey, meet me at the upper end of Lake Georgetown, put my gun in the car, meet me at the lower end, give it back to me, then, 3 hours later, meet me at the Upper end of Granger Lake, put my gun in the car, meet me at the lower end, give it back to me. We'll be camping in tents out of the kayak on Brazos River Authority land so we can carry there and have protection if we have a rattlesnake or bobcat attack us in the tent ...Yes, I wish you could have come on our family vacation too, but someone has to drive the guns around USACOE property for us ... the kids say hi ... Yes I caught us some fish for dinner, , wish you were here, and we only had 1 water moccassin try to get in Christie's kayak with her upstream, we dispatched it with snakeshot, so bring another snakeshot shell in 9mm, could have used your .40 then too. We'll meet you at Blue Hole CITY PARK and you can have some leftovers maybe; hold on dear, I need to tell the kids to paddle faster .... I hear banjo music and either some wild boar, or someone squeeling like a pig ..."
http://parks.georgetown.org/blue-hole/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(Photo near BLUE HOLE, on the San Gabriel River)

If our U.S. Congressmen carried, on a trip from say Galveston to Austin, had to have someone take their guns out of their cars in Pasadena, and give them to another person to carry around the Houston city limits to return them in Katy, then meet them later in LaGrange to take them again and drive around the Smithville city limits to Giddings, so they could all meet in Bastrop and get their guns back before they continued onto Austin ... They'd know what it's like. Navigable Rivers are our highways, kayaks our vehicles, however, kayaks/canoes/boats don't fall under the Motorist Protection Act which applies to U.S Highways/Interstate Highways within Texas. But nothing similar regarding Federal US Army Corps of Engineers property along our Texas navigable waterways.

[ /rant ]

[austin-tatious]

Just call them and ask them if you can carry with a CHL. I always do that with the parks, they are always very nice and answer truthfully. I mean yes there is a chance you will get a hateful insecure granola chomper on the phone who just finished a can campbells veggie soup with low sodium mentally planning their next violent attack on a research facility and dreaming about the day all humans are burned alive at the steak, but most of the time they just state the law and are nice about it.

I like my steaks medium rare, not burned alive on a stake.

[texas1234]

Yes I meant stake, not steak, its kind of like your vs. you're or their vs. there. Sometimes you just dont catch until someone points it out.

Now excuse me while I finish my stake, I mean steak, I mean your ruining my night, I mean you're......someone please stop me I am going grammar insane!!!!!!!!

[BoneDigger]

It is my understanding that the legal council at TPWD is checking on how the Federal laws are effected by TPWD leasing of properties such as Ray Rob, Atlanta, etc. As soon as I hear something I will let you know.

All state parks that are not leased from the COE are legal for concealed carry. As soon as I know about the COE properties I will pass it along.

Todd

[RPB]

It is my understanding that the legal council at TPWD is checking on how the Federal laws are effected by TPWD leasing of properties such as Ray Rob, Atlanta, etc. As soon as I hear something I will let you know.

All state parks that are not leased from the COE are legal for concealed carry. As soon as I know about the COE properties I will pass it along.

Todd

I'd be wiiling to bet Carter Smith sends you the same letter in the mail that I got after I contacted the Governor who asked TPWD to look into State Parks Leased from COE and reply to me. But yes, let us know whatever you get from them too. I put an excerpt from the letter he sent me on page 1 of this thread.

[BoneDigger]

No, I did not contact Carter Smith. I know the SP LE Director and talked to him directly, TPWD legal is looking into the situation right now and as soon as I know something I will let you guys know.

Todd

[Rex B]

Sir,

Thanks for your question. Since you are on the waters operated and
managed by the COE you would be required to abide by their rules and
laws, therefore this would be a question for them. As I understand it,
you would not be allowed to carry a weapon on their waterway.

Please let me know if I can be of further assistance,

Wes Masur
Director, State Park Law Enforcement
512-389-8001 Office
512-389-8559 Fax
wes.masur@tpwd.state.tx.us

[Rex B]

I bought a flare pistol and a box of flares, just to carry on my jetski.
You're supposed to have one of those anyway, right? For emergencies?

[RPB]

Sir,
Thanks for your question. Since you are on the waters operated and
managed by the COE you would be required to abide by their rules and
laws, therefore this would be a question for them. As I understand it,
you would not be allowed to carry a weapon on their waterway.
Please let me know if I can be of further assistance,
Wes Masur
Director, State Park Law Enforcement
512-389-8001 Office
512-389-8559 Fax
wes.masur@tpwd.state.tx.us

That pretty well confirms what I was saying in another thread. Where we can go to a State,City,County Park, River Authority property, etc.(Whitney, Ray Roberts, Georgetown, Granger, Stillhouse, etc etc etc) and fish from the bank at a legal location, but to launch an inflateable toy boat or kayak, or wade fish, or wade out and get our lure un-hung, we need to leave our gun concealed somewhere on the bank. Just gotta take a towel to conceal while unholstering it from my IWB holster. I better take a trigger lock too, in case some kids grab the towel to dry off after swimming .... (Kidding, I'm not going to any COE property, even bordered by State Parks, City Parks etc., until they fix their regulations) But, you see how silly it is.


While fishing from the bank, I'd hate to hear my child who went swimming, yelling "HELP I'M DROWNING," then have to make a quick run to the car to lock my gun in the car and cover it with a towel, then run really fast back to the lake to jump in and save him....if I make it back in time.

I'm even avoiding rivers where COE has lakes along the way, in case the wind drifts my kayak, or in case I'm fighting a 20 pound striper or a big catfish, and it pulls my little plastic boat across the imaginary line separating River Authority property from COE property.

[Mike1951]

327.26 State and local laws.
(a) Except as otherwise provided in this part or by Federal law or regulation, state and local laws and ordinances shall apply on project lands and waters. This includes, but is not limited to, state and local laws and ordinances governing:
(1) Operation and use of motor vehicles, vessels, and aircraft;
(2) Hunting, fishing and trapping;
(3) Use or possession of firearms or other weapons;

What possible reason was this included if firearms are already prohibited here?

327.13 Explosives, firearms, other weapons and fireworks.
(a) The possession of loaded firearms, ammunition, loaded projectile firing devices, bows and arrows, crossbows, or other weapons is prohibited unless:
(1) In the possession of a Federal, state or local law enforcement officer;
(2) Being used for hunting or fishing as permitted under 327.8, with devices being unloaded when transported to, from or between hunting and fishing sites;
(3) Being used at authorized shooting ranges; or
(4) Written permission has been received from the District Commander.

[RPB]

Let's examine that ...


327.26 State and local laws.
(a) Except as otherwise provided in this part or by Federal law or regulation


Here, it is "otherwise provided"

§ 327.13 Explosives, firearms, other
weapons and fireworks.
The possession of loaded firearms,
ammunition, loaded projectile firing
devices, bows and arrows, crossbows,
explosives or explosive devices of any
kind, including fireworks, is prohibited unless:
(a) In the possession of a Federal,
state or local law enforcement officer;
(b) Being used for hunting or fishing
as permitted under § 327.8, with devices
being unloaded when transported to,
from or between hunting and fishing
sites;
(c) Being used at authorized shooting
ranges; or
(d) Written permission has been received
from the District Engineer.

So, 1) they are prohibited by Federal law, and
A) If you aren't a LEO, the LEO "unless" provision does not apply
b) But, ... I know of no CHL who carries "with devices being unloaded when transported to, from or between hunting and fishing sites;" AND a concealed handgun isn't "being used" for fishing or hunting. So, b) "unless" provision does not apply.
c) might apply if you use your concealed handgun at the shooting range only ... unloading it before and afterwards.
d) get permission applies if you have it.

The general Federal Law prohibits weapons on Federal property, and § 327.13 allows carrying a firearm to Police Officers, people using the shooting ranges, etc etc. I presume only to those allowed to own or posses a weapon under State Law (ie. NOT felons, fugitives from justice etc ... 327.26 State and local laws..) So, a felon in possession of a firearm at the shooting range on US Army property (US Army Corps of Engineers) is not something they desire.

[Rodrockinoff]

Here's a fairly good and semi-reasonable question for you: Why doesn't the Castle Doctrine apply when we are in our water vessels? Works in cars... why not boats? We have the right to protect ourselves when traveling... even without a concealed license... I think this should apply to watercraft as well, not matter where we are "traveling."

What do you think?

Rodrockinoff

[RPB]

Here's a fairly good and semi-reasonable question for you: Why doesn't the Castle Doctrine apply when we are in our water vessels? Works in cars... why not boats? We have the right to protect ourselves when traveling... even without a concealed license... I think this should apply to watercraft as well, not matter where we are "traveling."

What do you think?

Rodrockinoff

First, Castle Doctrine and Motorist Protection Act and Concealed Hangun License are State of Texas.
U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is not State of Texas. (Like a IRAN Foreign Embassy in the USA is considered Iranian Soil)

Castle Doctrine is not a car doctrine, except possibly where a motorohome is a "premesis" = temporary residence.
Castle Doctrine concerns your home/premesis (a man's home is his castle)

The Motorist Protection Act allows the unlicensed carry in a motor vehicle or motor home used as a premesis.
The Penal Code which defines premesis, did not include houseboats, but included RVs, motorhomes, travel trailers and such pretty specifically defining the term "premesis"

Travelling? I see nothing about "travelling" that's OLD law, not current

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/S ... /PE.46.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Penal Code Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:

(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control.

(a-1) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control at any time in which:
(1) the handgun is in plain view; or
(2) the person is:
(A) engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic;
(B) prohibited by law from possessing a firearm; or
(C) a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 71.01.

(a-2) For purposes of this section, "premises" includes real property and a recreational vehicle that is being used as living quarters, regardless of whether that use is temporary or permanent. In this subsection, "recreational vehicle" means a motor vehicle primarily designed as temporary living quarters or a vehicle that contains temporary living quarters and is designed to be towed by a motor vehicle. The term includes a travel trailer, camping trailer, truck camper, motor home, and horse trailer with living quarters.

(b) Except as provided by Subsection (c), an offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.

(c) An offense under this section is a felony of the third degree if the offense is committed on any premises licensed or issued a permit by this state for the sale of alcoholic beverages.

Doesn't look like a houseboat or motorboat is a premesis ...
My next post explains that a motorboat or houseboat is not a "motor vehicle"