Road rage incident with CHL involved

[gregthehand]

I'm reading that the mother was a police officer. On another site they said the father was. Either way it's horrible for the family and I hope the guy is served justice very swiftly.

[texas1234]

I feel really bad for the girl. What a moron!

[Keith B]

IMO, this is a probably a case of a young guy still living at home and probably being handed money to do whatever he wants from Mom and Dad. Fancy car, 9mm, CHL, etc. All that does IMO is aid to a lack of maturity on the kids part when they support them like this. From the original article, he states:

“(Calderon) says because his car is quote-unquote ‘so fancy,' he's been a target of things before, so he was jumping to conclusions,” Harris said. “Because of his car, he thought perhaps they were attacking him because they wanted his car or his rims.

That was a blatant lie since he hit them, then started pursuing them.

Bottom line, this guy was a hot head and immature, no matter what his age, and now a young girl is gone and a family is grieving.

As for the guy having a CHL, the best thing we can do to defend against bad press is show how many CHL's are out there and the extreme rarity that any are involved in anything remotely like this.

[A-R]

As for the guy having a CHL, the best thing we can do to defend against bad press is show how many CHL's are out there and the extreme rarity that any are involved in anything remotely like this.

And also add - with caveat of course to let the legal system play out first to make sure the story is straight - that we as CHL holders should be universally condemning his actions, making it very clear that we do not condone such abuses of the RKBA and CHL. We must show that the overwhelming majority of us know these actions were absolutely wrong and we would never do such a thing. Even those fence-sitters who would generally support our shared cause can be easily scared off by thoughts that - because a gun is so readily available - it is very likely to be used when someone "snaps" or "freaks out". We need to constantly portray ourselves as calm, rational people who would not "snap" in this way and who know, unequivocally, right from wrong.

The best stories and examples I can think of to use as analogies of what makes a good CHL holder are those like Hank B's above, in which we demostrate that just because we have a gun we're not more prone to use it and - in fact - the opposite is true: because we carry a gun and have some amount of training/study in conflict resolution we are MORE likely to try to diffuse a situation than escalate it. Because we all know the horrible ramifications of ever pulling the trigger, even if we are 100% in the right, much less if the question of right vs. wrong is a grey area.

I have found over my years of carrying and discussing CHL with fence-sitters, that this kind of discussion can - at least temporarily - put their minds at ease. Many have even said something to the effect of - "well obviously you are mature and level-headed enough to carry a gun, but it's the OTHER GUY I worry about". Most of them then acknowledge that it's not right to deny me my rights because of what someone else might do. But this is a very fragile pendulum that can easily swing against us if too many of these CHL-aggressor events are documented and if we appear to in any way try to defend undefendable actions (not saying any of us on this thread have done so). This is precisely the message that the antis try to push - that people with guns are a menace to society because when they "snap" the gun is right there waiting to be used. The problem with their message is they don't have evidence of such things to back it up. Well, this idiot just gave them one more arrow in their quiver. We mustn't help them aim that arrow by in any way supporting such aggression by a CHL holder and forcefully condemning it.

Anyway, just my random musings on the subject. Special half-off sale today - can be yours for only $0.01 as always YMMV IANAL yadda yadda yadda

[Westfield]

What a shame. This nit wit should be put to death (if found guilty). What is unfortunate is what some folks on this board have alluded to - that this individual is "young and dumb". That concerns me because as I read other hand gun boards much of the macho talk about their weapons come from the young and dumb. Today maturity comes at a later age for the young - that is a psychological fact. Many kids today are protected by mommy and daddy and are given way too much and don't mature till later in life. In the San Antonio Express News this morning there is a story about an 18 year old kid who killedl his wife, shot here repeatedly in the face and head with a handgun and told her "you're gonna die". This moron is not a CHL holder, just a young and dumb thug which is becomming all to common in today's society. Our society is becomming far too coarse and reckless - this trend is being led by the "young and dumb".

[PeteCamp]

Make no mistake, I am in no way excusing the shooter, but I am in no way participating in a lynching either. This is America and even the "young and dumb" are entitled to a trial by their peers. I will let the jury review all the facts, determine the truth, and speak for me - as I'm sure all of you will. I think the anti's might just expect us to call for the rope and look for a tree.

All that aside, I am not convinced it is so much "young and dumb" as it is "disrepectful of all life." Why this has happened to our society is complex. Some point to video games that portray killing in an exciting way. Others would point to socio-economic factors and attempt justification. Whatever the reasons, our society views life as cheap and the taking of life as routine. We are bombarded daily with the notion that killing is the norm. Are we really surprised, given that our children are taught that "all ideas are equally valuable" in school, that they often embrace the darker side of human nature?

I am not ready to blame this young man's parents either. He is 24 years old - hardly a child. I have counseled hundreds of parents about their wayward children. Most have done the best they knew how. Kids just don't always turn out the way parents want. This young man is an adult, has a free will, and he exercised it with tragic results. As much as I find this incident despicable, I'll wait for the slow wheel of justice to grind the facts and determine the truth.

[philip964]

Today's paper was filled with terrible stories from yesterday. My sincere sympathy to all the families involved.

The road rage shooting, became very personal when I read the murderer was a CHL holder. This is horrible that a CHL holder has murdered a 13 year old girl while chasing them in his car, after hit and run, where he was the criminal runner.

I can not begin to express my contempt for these actions.

On other pages off page one, the paper had these items:

Resident shot to death in his home by a masked intruder while watching TV; Nude body of a women pulled from the Bayou and finally Judge Fine ruled the death penalty unconstitutional in the shooting death of a women and the wounding of her sister after a gunman demanded money and then shot them.

Four people have died, three by a gun, one of those by a CHL holder. But that one will haunt us all for a long time.

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

Today's paper was filled with terrible stories from yesterday. My sincere sympathy to all the families involved.

The road rage shooting, became very personal when I read the murderer was a CHL holder. This is horrible that a CHL holder has murdered a 13 year old girl while chasing them in his car, after hit and run, where he was the criminal runner.

I can not begin to express my contempt for these actions.

On other pages off page one, the paper had these items:

Resident shot to death in his home by a masked intruder while watching TV; Nude body of a women pulled from the Bayou and finally Judge Fine ruled the death penalty unconstitutional in the shooting death of a women and the wounding of her sister after a gunman demanded money and then shot them.

Four people have died, three by a gun, one of those by a CHL holder. But that one will haunt us all for a long time.

All died not because of the gun but because of a very bad person.

[MechAg94]

I think y'all are overreacting on this coming back at us. This is the not the first CHL holder to screw up and he won't be the last. The DPS statistics already show that CHL holders in general are good people and commit crimes at a much lower rate than the average population. This one incident won't change that.

Yes, it is bad press and a very sad/unfortunate incident. Yes, if guilty, he should be punished. I just don't see it going beyond that.

Remember also that anyone who can legally own a gun can carry a gun in their vehicle these days. CHL is no longer required.

[marksiwel]

I think y'all are overreacting on this coming back at us. This is the not the first CHL holder to screw up and he won't be the last. The DPS statistics already show that CHL holders in general are good people and commit crimes at a much lower rate than the average population. This one incident won't change that.

Yes, it is bad press and a very sad/unfortunate incident. Yes, if guilty, he should be punished. I just don't see it going beyond that.

Remember also that anyone who can legally own a gun can carry a gun in their vehicle these days. CHL is no longer required.

With More people getting CHL you have to expect some Bad Apples.
But then again, we want people to at the VERY least have no Problem with us carrying. I'd rather have someone laugh at me and call me paranoid, than be opposed to me carrying at all.

[philip964]

All very good points.

However it would be nice to have a headline, CHL holder foils mall massacre once in a while to balance.

My view is that just because we have CHL here in Texas, it already has, because those bad guys go to other states or do something else with their spare time.

However, I'm not so sure average John Q. Public understands this.

[Dragonfighter]

All that aside, I am not convinced it is so much "young and dumb" as it is "disrepectful of all life." Why this has happened to our society is complex.

At the risk of bordering on religion, the disrespect of life comes from an indoctrination on all levels that life in general and we in particular are nothing more than bio-chemical accidents.

Video games, like FRPs (Fantasy Role Playing games, Dungeons and Dragons et al) can effect psyche and interpersonal skills as well as simply spending too much time on the computer.

Typically there is an underlying imbalance in the first place, and these factors conspire to make one completely dissociative.

Parental involvement (or lack there of) is another issue. How many hours did those shooters at columbine spend in their room, shielded from the sun, obsessing over killing games and planning revenge on all of those that wouldn't interact with the weirdos? What would have happened if mom or dad had stepped in and interrupted the mayhem that was being plotted under their nose? There are indeed several factors that contribute to the "cheapness" of life, but there are myriad solutions that are relatively simple.

I agree also that this kid never received the self reliance training or coping skills that used to be so common amongst Americans. We are to shelter our children but we also train them up in the way they should go. This yahoo obviously was lacking. I don't think the impact on the "cause" is going to be as great as some have opined, but we as a community need to vociferously object to this behavior.

He is due a trial by his peers and he is (and should) be presumed innocent. Let the system do its job and then we can do ours.

[father]

... and the guy is out of jail on bond. Anybody see anything wrong here?

http://www.click2houston.com/news/22750812/detail.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Are you mad a Hispanic got bail, or are you mad a CHL got bail, or are you mad about the "innocent until proven guilty in court" thing? How many cases have we seen where the real story was different than the initial story that spread like wildfire on the internet?

[hirundo82]

I think y'all are overreacting on this coming back at us. This is the not the first CHL holder to screw up and he won't be the last. The DPS statistics already show that CHL holders in general are good people and commit crimes at a much lower rate than the average population. This one incident won't change that.

The problem is that people are irrational, emotional beings. If you have two people debating and one talks about the statistics showing that CHL holders are on average far more law-abiding than the general population, and the other one says, "Yes, but this one person with a CHL gunned down a young girl in front of her mother," an observer is likely going to walk away with a negative view of CHL holders in general.

[philip964]

Heres a link to the Channel 2 report
It has a picture of the "innocent until proven guilty suspect" in case you were wondering.
Had to give up his CHL and his gun as part of his bond.

http://www.click2houston.com/news/22750812/detail.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;