First aid ,CPR after shooting?

[Lonegun1894]

As has been said, unless you have back-up, call for help and let EMS handle it.

[Marty Graw]

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[shootthesheet]

I wouldn't do it simply because I don't know that the attacker has really been stopped or if he/she is not really hurt that bad and may be trying to trick me into getting close enough for him/her to continue the attack. Who has not considered a fake heart attack or something like that to throw an attacker off long enough to gain an advantage. I don't even plan to get close enough to give an opinion on if the attacker has actually been hit by any rounds I was forced to fire. If the criminal wants to get at me they had better do it quickly because I will be ready to stop any further aggressive movements.

Also, how do we know the guy doesn't have friends around who would attack us when we go to help? That isn't even considering the liability issue we may get hit with that may not be covered under the law that helps us with a justified shoot. Nancy Regan was right, "Just Say No!"

[Oldgringo]

If you are attacked, and you legitimately shoot your attacker, and you have called an ambulance, then you have more than discharged any social responsibility you might think you have.

Harsh as it sounds, your primary responsibility is to yourself at that point. Let the LEOs do what they do; and let the EMS guys do what they do; and you do what you have to do to avoid a trial.

There is no one no where who could have said this any better! At least, that's what I think. The BG should have thought of his potential medical needs before he/she started the bad stinky stuff.

EDIT:

The more I think about it: Great response, TAM!

[Bashful]

I''ve been a Paramedic for over 30 years...

Aid the BG that I've just had to shoot beyond calling 9-1-1???

The long answer.... NO!!!!

The Reader's Digest version... NO!!!

[gregthehand]

When I was in law enforcement my dad ( a M.D.) wanted to get me one of those masks thingers they put over someone's face to give them CPR. I told him not to as I didn't see anytime I would give someone CPR. First off I completely agree with everyone here that CPR on a gunshot wound victim/suspect may do more harm than good. They made us watch a video for some training once concerning that among other things. A state trooper got shot with a little .22 derringer and the bullet hit him in his arm turned into his chest and punctured his heart. He bled out right there on the side of the road. When his backup arrived they started giving him CPR which more than likely just pumped more blood out of his heart. By the way as an aside he shot the bad guy five times in the torso from less than fifteen feet away with a .357 magnum and he lived.

Anyway for those who would give CPR (it seems like nobody here would) to someone who has been shot how do you know CPR will help? I don't! I've been through a whole lot of first aid training and have only been taught to give CPR once. In the Army they don't even teach you how to do it at the one week long combat lifesaver course. The reason why is because if used incorrectly and can do a lot more harm than good. Additionally as a soldier, cop, or even regular Joe who just got into a shooting once you start CPR you aren't supposed to stop. From what I was taught in multiple venues once you start CPR you don't stop until a doctor orders you to do so.

Another good example is my Dad. He was at a charity golf tournament for one of our local Constables and an older guy went down at on a green. They rushed my dad over and he began CPR. He said the guys chest had a huge scar from previous heart surgery. So he begins CPR and because of where they were the ambulance didn't get there until 45 mins later. Now he is a doctor that does surgery, works in a hospital, works in an ER, see's trauma cases, sees death and works with people who are dying however he kept doing CPR the whole time this guy was laid out on the golf course. He's an MD with over thirty years experience and at anytime he could have stopped and said there was no need to go forward this man was gone. But he was not THIS guy's doctor and he would not have been responsible for that man's life until he said to stop. Instead the EMTs say to stop and it's on them and their organization that's insured to deal with someone laid over on a golf course. He can't be sued or hel liable if the family feels he should have kept going because he cared for the injured until someone else took over.

You need to prepare for that if you give someone CPR. You can't just start and then five minutes into it when you are out of breath and about to have a heart attack yourself stop. By the way CPR is very exhausting. Learn it though because someday someone might grip their chest and go down near you. This is time for CPR when they stop breathing and they have no pulse.

On a side note my grandad (my Dad's dad) was in Boy Scouting his whole life. Triple palm Eagle, OA, Scoutmaster, Area Leader, ran the Boy Scout Council area for the San Angelo area. He had a guy he was playing golf with have a heart attack right in front of him and he gave him CPR and saved his life. History may not always repeat itself but it sure does rhyme I guess.

Anyway my point is their is a time for CPR and their is not a time. Just because someone's pulse stops and they aren't breathing doesn't mean they need it. You need to be really trained in it and also know that it's like Pringles. Once you pop (that chest bone does pop!) you can't stop! So be ready to protect yourself and others around you while doing it. Also be ready to feel like you are carrying your gun safe up a flight of stairs by yourself because it's not nice and easy like in the movies.

[Mike1951]

Additionally as a soldier, cop, or even regular Joe who just got into a shooting once you start CPR you aren't supposed to stop. From what I was taught in multiple venues once you start CPR you don't stop until a doctor orders you to do so.

I was taught the same thing, 32 years ago. Then, at least, only a doctor or justice of the peace could declare someone to be dead.

If CPR is begun, it must be continued until such declaration is made, or CPR turned over to someone else.

If you stop CPR, then you have assumed the responsibility for letting this person die.

[bizarrenormality]

Not that I don't trust a sound bite from 30 years ago, but do you have a link to the relevant Texas law?

[Mike1951]

Not that I don't trust a sound bite from 30 years ago, but do you have a link to the relevant Texas law?

I'll try to locate.

This was in 1978, as part of TCLEOSE Basic LE certification class.

[bizarrenormality]

Thanks. I know the recommendation is to continue CPR but I never heard of any legal liability for a layperson who stops.

[Bashful]

These are some of the guidelines regarding stopping CPR...

Continue CPR until:

The person regains a pulse;
you turn care over to another person who can continue CPR;
the patient is obviously dead; or
you're too exhausted to continue.

That being said, there's no law which requires a layperson to start CPR or govern when it stops. Citizens are covered under the Good Samaratian Act, which protects them from civil liability as long as they are not grossly negligent.

[Carry Big Stick]

Doesn't Texas have a good samaritan law, where if you are average citizen and render aid and do something wrong you can't be held liable for any damages the victim incurs?

Also as many have stated CPR to a gun shot victim would be very difficult unless you have the ability to plug those holes and stop the bleeding first. Maybe toss them a bag of quick clot and let them help themselves?

ETA: failed to read the very last sentence in the post above mine.

[Marty Graw]

Talking about first aid, where can I buy IBD in Houston?

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[dac1842]

As a former cop and EMT, I can tell you this. if I have to shoot you, it is because you did something or tried to do something really stupid to me. I will not do anything to preserve your life, just like it is highly unlikely you would have done anything to preserve mine had you shot me. It is also highly unlikely by the time the cops and EMS arrive on scene they will have a whole lot left to work with.

[hheremtp]

As a paramedic I agree with what the other medical types have stated above. For those of you in EMS, do you think that your cert would be in jeopardy if you failed to render aid after shooting a BG. I have often wondered if we as medical personnel have a duty to act after such a situation. It is not like we have the ability to claim that we have not had prior medical training and therefore did not know what to do. I would like to know what your thoughts are in regards to our duty to act. Do you think that TDH might try to take our cert because we did not render aid?