30.05 QUESTION

[txinvestigator]

TXI,

I don't know if they still have them, but San Antonio used to try to get around the 30.06 laws by posting a sign that anyone entering the property with any weapons would be in violation of 30.05 and would be prosecuted. This was done as late as 2003/4 time frame when I moved out of the city.

lol those silly San Antonioans.

[GrillKing]

The real question is, what would happen if you were found to be carrying at Love Field (say you were asked for ID by a peace officer for some valid reason)? Or in a gov't building in San Antonio? Yes, you can legally carry, but would you beat the proverbial ride?

[jimlongley]

airports broadcast via radio frequency under direct authority of the FCC... PD's transmit on FCC secured frequencies as well...

i was under the impression this was the reasoning for the 30.05 postings and the consideration of them as "critical infrastructures".... as "FCC regulated radio stations" are inclusive in the 30.05 listings

I am a FCC regulated radio station, a couple of times over, and I broadcast under direct authority of the FCC too, does that make me "critical infrastructure"? I don't understand your reasoning.

[jimlongley]

The real question is, what would happen if you were found to be carrying at Love Field (say you were asked for ID by a peace officer for some valid reason)? Or in a gov't building in San Antonio? Yes, you can legally carry, but would you beat the proverbial ride?

This has come up in past discussions, and the consensus has been that in some cases you would walk, and in others you would ride. Based on conversations with individual LEOs at Love Field (when I worked there) I am not uncomfortable carrying there. When I was travelling so much last year I routinely went into the restroom to finish packing my carry gun in my checked bag.

Interestingly enough that's not quite as convenient at DFW where there are fewer restrooms on the unsecured side of the checkpoints.

[CHL/LEO]

The City of Dallas put up those old 30.05 signs years ago. Love Field and most of our Police Substations have them up but they are not enforceable.

This all started due to our City Attorney's interpretation of the Penal Code several years back. The State Legislature cleared all of that up so there's now no need to worry.

However, the signs will probably never come down because that would cost money and the City of Dallas is not going to spend money on something like this unless they were ordered by a court to do so. I'm sure there are still plenty of people that approach the door, read the sign, and then go back to their car to stow their gun.

[CHL/LEO]

The City of Dallas put up those old 30.05 signs years ago. Love Field and most of our Police Substations have them up but they are not enforceable.

This all started due to our City Attorney's interpretation of the Penal Code several years back. The State Legislature cleared all of that up so there's now no need to worry.

However, the signs will probably never come down because that would cost money and the City of Dallas is not going to spend money on something like this unless they were ordered by a court to do so. I'm sure there are still plenty of people that approach the door, read the sign, and then go back to their car to stow their gun.

[CHL/LEO]

The City of Dallas put up those old 30.05 signs years ago. Love Field and most of our Police Substations have them up but they are not enforceable.

This all started due to our City Attorney's interpretation of the Penal Code several years back. The State Legislature cleared all of that up so there's now no need to worry.

However, the signs will probably never come down because that would cost money and the City of Dallas is not going to spend money on something like this unless they were ordered by a court to do so. I'm sure there are still plenty of people that approach the door, read the sign, and then go back to their car to stow their gun.

[jimlongley]

The City of Dallas put up those old 30.05 signs years ago. Love Field and most of our Police Substations have them up but they are not enforceable.

This all started due to our City Attorney's interpretation of the Penal Code several years back. The State Legislature cleared all of that up so there's now no need to worry.

However, the signs will probably never come down because that would cost money and the City of Dallas is not going to spend money on something like this unless they were ordered by a court to do so. I'm sure there are still plenty of people that approach the door, read the sign, and then go back to their car to stow their gun.

Love Field even goes so far as to replace "damaged" ones, so I think that there is more to it than the simple economic explanation. we had a door get broken and the new one went in without a sign, and then the sign was placed a few days later. The pic in my post is from a door that was added new during the construction in '05 and they put the sign on it too.

Of course they also do not have those signs on ALL of the entrances.

When I worked at Love I pointed out the "unenforceability" of such signs and was told by airport management that they, and the legal department (whatever that means) considered them to be proper notice and that they would prosecute anyone caught carrying. And of course, as mentioned above, the LEOs I spoke to generally said they would not arrest because they were aware of the law.

[Lykoi]

airports broadcast via radio frequency under direct authority of the FCC... PD's transmit on FCC secured frequencies as well...

i was under the impression this was the reasoning for the 30.05 postings and the consideration of them as "critical infrastructures".... as "FCC regulated radio stations" are inclusive in the 30.05 listings

That is incorrect. Ham radio operators use FCC controlled frequencies and equipment as well, and that wouldn't make my house "critical infrastructure" if I were a ham operator. The code specifically refers to "federally licensed radio...station." The FCC has very specific licenses for radio stations, and airports and police departments don't have them.

if that's the case then i stand corrected... and gladly at that...

I am a FCC regulated radio station, a couple of times over, and I broadcast under direct authority of the FCC too, does that make me "critical infrastructure"? I don't understand your reasoning.

keep up.

[RetiredE9]

I bet if you check, if was a 30.06. And if not, if you could shoot a pic of it and post it here we could be more clear. Or do you remember the language?

No, it definitely was a 30.05 because that was what caught my eye and I'm pretty sure it mentioned "concealed weapon" with no qualifier, and "duh" I always have my camera with me and I don't know why I didn't shoot it (with the camera I mean.... )

It was at the Hutchins PD just south of Dallas. I have to go down there Monday to collect a police report so I'll take a photo then.

[dukalmighty]

I am so grateful for this forum ,you guys really go into more detail about penal codes and restricted areas , at my age i retain very ittle on the first go around but repetition helps me retain information.I know if hadn't read this stuff i would be stowing my weapon every time i saw a no firearms permitted sign on property i had to enter.You guys and gals that moderate this forum rock .Thanks Steve

[FightinAggieCHL]

I just like reading the Penal Code and keeping up with new cases. I was unaware of the 30.05 code, and had I seen it, I would probably have stowed my weapon as someone said earlier.

So, let's recap and get a good, straight answer:
If you are caught carrying a concealed handgun and valid plastic, you cannot be arrested or charged if the ONLY reason for the arrest and charge is that you had a concealed handgun on your possession. BUT, if you are not supposed to be someplace and are trespassing, and you are detained and found to have in your possession a concealed handgun, then you are charged with a Class A misdemeanor, rather than a Class C misdemeanor.

Is that right? Or am I way off?

[Liberty]

I just like reading the Penal Code and keeping up with new cases. I was unaware of the 30.05 code, and had I seen it, I would probably have stowed my weapon as someone said earlier.

So, let's recap and get a good, straight answer:
If you are caught carrying a concealed handgun and valid plastic, you cannot be arrested or charged if the ONLY reason for the arrest and charge is that you had a concealed handgun on your possession. BUT, if you are not supposed to be someplace and are trespassing, and you are detained and found to have in your possession a concealed handgun, then you are charged with a Class A misdemeanor, rather than a Class C misdemeanor.

Is that right? Or am I way off?

There are no guarantees in life. You could get arrested. You could get charged. You could also get busted for UCW walking down the road, but it is extremely unlikely.
In order to get busted you would have to draw the attention of an LEO. The LEO would have to have a poor understanding of the CHL laws. And to get charged the prosecutor would have to be wiling to take on a losing misdemeaner case. Even in Tarrent and Harris county they aren't being that aggresive lately. I would carry there. If you want a 100% guarantee that you won't ever get busted for carrying you should leave your gun at home. If you want to be legal, and reasonably expect it not to be a problem go ahead and pack.

[FightinAggieCHL]

Ok cool, thanks for the clarification.

That's why I think I like reading all of these different cases. No two are the same, so it's all a brand-new game every time a new case is filed. Plus, it's a subject matter I find to be remarkably interesting.

[CHL/LEO]

If you were anywhere at Love Field, and not in a sterile or restricted area, I would not mess with you if you had a CHL and gun.

Even though Love Field is owned by the City of Dallas, there are three main operating entities out there: Love Field Operations, TSA, and the Dallas PD. Each have their own ideas as to how things ought to work but overall they get along fairly well.

Operations can say what they want to about those 30.05 signs but you won't find any of us arresting anybody if someone with a CHL is inside an authorized area. TSA pretty much only gets involved regarding issues past the security screening areas, and sometimes illegal parking or standing at curbside.

The FAA also provides a tremendous amount of direction regarding the airport but the average person will never have any contact with their reps.