CHL & Your Church

[NotRPB]

Hero Survivor of 1993 church attack calls for being armed
http://www.wnd.com/2015/06/hero-of-1993 ... ing-armed/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[WhoWouldGuess]

I thought the prohibition against church concealed carry was removed a few years ago. The TxDPS site still shows this a prohibited. What did I miss?

[jmra]

I thought the prohibition against church concealed carry was removed a few years ago. The TxDPS site still shows this a prohibited. What did I miss?

The DPS site is wrong. Churches are only off limits if posted with 30.06 signs.

[Mel]

I thought the prohibition against church concealed carry was removed a few years ago. The TxDPS site still shows this a prohibited. What did I miss?

To prohibit carry in church, the church must be posted with 30.06. That's what changed.

[RetNavy]

I thought the prohibition against church concealed carry was removed a few years ago. The TxDPS site still shows this a prohibited. What did I miss?

45.035 does mention that churches and such are off limits but then it says a further down that that section does not apply if not given effective notice under sec 30.06... no sign posted OR no verbal warning then you can carry

[The Annoyed Man]

I thought the prohibition against church concealed carry was removed a few years ago. The TxDPS site still shows this a prohibited. What did I miss?

Whenever you read stuff like this in the law, don't stop at that point!!! Always read further down for the exceptions which will be defined below it.

The DPS website isn't wrong, but it doesn't contain the entire text of the law within its pages. You have to actually download a copy of the whole law to get the complete picture......and the website more or less tells you that. The law does say no carry in houses of worship. But if you read further down the page, it also says that paragraph does not apply if the house of worship is not posted with a 30.06 sign.

The relevant paragraphs of the actual law have been replicated so many times on these pages that a simple search would have turned them up. I refer you to this post of mine from December 2013 (and not by any means the first reference to this issue): viewtopic.php?p=875932#p875932. Read the part in red.

TPC Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER.

• (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.
  (b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:
  • (1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;
    (2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used in the event;
    (3) on the premises of a correctional facility;
    (4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate;
    (5) in an amusement park; or
    (6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.
  (c) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a governmental entity.
  (d) A license holder commits an offense if, while intoxicated, the license holder carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed.
  (e) A license holder who is licensed as a security officer under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, and employed as a security officer commits an offense if, while in the course and scope of the security officer's employment, the security officer violates a provision of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
  (f) In this section:
  • (1) "Amusement park" means a permanent indoor or outdoor facility or park where amusement rides are available for use by the public that is located in a county with a population of more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface area, is enclosed with access only through controlled entries, is open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
    (2) "License holder" means a person licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
    (3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
  (g) An offense under Subsection (a), (b), (c), (d), or (e) is a Class A misdemeanor, unless the offense is committed under Subsection (b)(1) or (b)(3), in which event the offense is a felony of the third degree.
  (h) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a) that the actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, displayed the handgun under circumstances in which the actor would have been justified in the use of deadly force under Chapter 9.
  
  Text of subsection as added by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 1214, Sec. 2
  
  
  (h-1) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsections (b) and (c) that the actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, was:
  • (1) an active judicial officer, as defined by Section 411.201, Government Code; or
    (2) a bailiff designated by the active judicial officer and engaged in escorting the officer.
  
  Text of subsection as added by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 1222, Sec. 5
  
  
  (h-1) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsections (b)(1), (2), and (4)-(6), and (c) that at the time of the commission of the offense, the actor was:
  • (1) a judge or justice of a federal court;
    (2) an active judicial officer, as defined by Section 411.201, Government Code; or
    (3) a district attorney, assistant district attorney, criminal district attorney, assistant criminal district attorney, county attorney, or assistant county attorney.
  (i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

Get that? The prohibition against carrying inside a house of worship does not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

Section 30.06 is very specific in describing the signage requirements. If the church is not posted, you can carry. Period.

A moderator really ought to make a sticky post with this text in it, as this is a recurring topic of discussion.

[SewTexas]

I thought the prohibition against church concealed carry was removed a few years ago.

My husband says he is pretty sure the law was changed the next Leg session after the CHL law was passed.

[mreed911]

Remember that "does not apply" = "defense to prosecution" and not "is is an exception..."

[ShootDontTalk]

Remember that "does not apply" = "defense to prosecution" and not "is is an exception..."

What are you trying to say here? The law is clear.

[Keith B]

Remember that "does not apply" = "defense to prosecution" and not "is is an exception..."

Actually, does not apply means it IS an exception and not just a defense to prosecution. They cannot charge you for something that does not apply.

[Prankster707]

I thought it was only stores that gain 51% of their revenue from alcohol, schools, racetracks, sporting events, and polling places/federal buildings where you can't carry period, and anywhere else that has a 30.06 sign and soon to be 30.07 sign? I don't recall churches being on that list. Because there's about nine people who conceal carry, including my pastor and his wife, a retired cop, my dad, who's a federal firefighter, and a few more. They had the class at the church and everything, pretty funny considering that the preacher's daughter doesn't like guns.

[ShootDontTalk]

I thought it was only stores that gain 51% of their revenue from alcohol, schools, racetracks, sporting events, and polling places/federal buildings where you can't carry period, and anywhere else that has a 30.06 sign and soon to be 30.07 sign? I don't recall churches being on that list.

That is absolutely correct. Under Texas law, a church must post the legal sign or give verbal notice that you cannot carry with a CHL.

[jimlongley]

I got baptized with a gun in my pocket.

[carlson1]

I got baptized with a gun in my pocket.

In 2001 I baptized 450 people in that year with a pistol on my waist. My song director carries and the man who does my baptisms now carries during baptisms.

[ShootDontTalk]

In 2001 I baptized 450 people in that year with a pistol on my waist. My song director carries and the man who does my baptisms now carries during baptisms.

A Glock no doubt!