Deferred domestic

[Oldgringo]

{snip}

Saying that we were all young and dumb and did stupid things is one thing and sounds cute, but we all have not done things to get us DQed from having a CHL.

......

[talltex]

The real issue here is the loss of firearms rights for convicted misdemeanants... Only DV counts in this case where as all other misdemeanors don't. Thanks Pres. Clinton & Senator Lautenberg. If a DV is so minor that it is only a misdemeanor, then it shouldn't count. There are plenty of felonies to charge people with if they are doing more than shouting.

I've got a good friend that was a well respected long time businessman in a neighboring town. Had been married for 30 years and after the kids were grown and married they divorced. One of those situations where they had remained together for years just for the sake of the kids. He became involved with a woman 25 years younger a couple of years later. She was a disaster. She'd had two prior DWI's and about six months after she had moved in with him he found out she was using cocaine. He told her to get out of the house and she refused to do so. He called me and asked what to do and I advised him to get a restraining order on her and call the police to forcibly remove her. She found out what he was planning to do and that night as he was asleep on the couch she attacked him with a baseball bat. Luckily she was stumbling around and banged into the coffee table and he woke up as she was swinging the bat down and rolled to the side and took the blow on his shoulder and back instead of his face. He struggled with her and got the bat away wrestled her out of the house and locked the doors. She ran to a neighbors house and had them call the police saying he was trying to kill her. When they arrived he opened the door for them and told them what had happened and why. They could see the marks on his shoulder and back and he had a black eye where she had connected with an elbow as he was pushing her out of the house, but they told him that because they were called out and it was a DV situation, someone had to leave the house and it would have to be him just because that's the way it works. The next morning she filed assault charges on him and got a restraining order issued immediately to prevent him from returning to HIS house. She had bruises on her arms where he had drug her out of the house. He was arrested and charged. The DA told him it was going to be dropped to a misdemeanor charge and the simplest thing to do was just plead it and pay the fine. He did and now has a permanent record. The GF wound up going to prison 6 months after he finally got her removed from his house after getting busted for cocaine possession which violated her DWI probation. Sometimes, "justice" and the real world application of our laws do not go hand in hand.

[Charles L. Cotton]

I keep seeing this question over and over. I understand the law and it is what it is. Among us there is no one that hasn't done something stupid at some point in their life. Whether or not you were caught is the question....

There really needs to be a way to fix this. A bad decision you made when young and dumb shouldn't haunt you the remainder of your life. At some point you've paid your dues. Am I the only one that believes this? I believe this is something the would benefit a great number of people that were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Saying that we were all young and dumb and did stupid things is one thing and sounds cute, but we all have not done things to get us DQed from having a CHL. I wasn't caught because I didn't do anything disqualifying to get caught doing. Yeah, I did stupid things, but nothing illegal like that.

Pushing your spouse, girlfriend/boyfriend, son, daughter or any intimate partner can get you a misdemeanor family violence conviction. I understand what you mean, but we have to consider the changes to federal law and to some extent state law. I know a man who was convicted of family violence for pushing his drunk wife into a sitting position on the couch. Some people are now pushing to make verbal and/or emotional abuse a criminal offense. People better wake up and stop this very dangerous trend.

Chas.

[clarionite]

Years ago in a prior marriage, I was attacked by my wife (now ex wife) while she was drunk. I was attempting to go to bed as I had to be at work at 04:00 and she wanted to argue. She trashed the house, assaulted me with a corded phone, bit me to the point that blood was running down my arm, and threw everything in my brief case across the front room. I called the police when things started getting violent. When they showed up, they put the cuffs on me! She had two light bruises on her forearms where I had restrained her while she was trying to hit me. I had a black eye, a knot on my head, blood running down my arm, and I was the sober one. If it weren't for the neighbors hearing a big portion of the fight and stepping up and telling the cops they had the wrong one in cuffs, I might be disqualified to carry now too. I'm 6'7" and 300+ lbs. I look intimidating. But I've never, and will never assault a woman or a child.

I worry about permanently disqualifying events, not just for myself but for other young people growing up. You find yourself in situations you never expected to be in. Life's hard, it's harder when you're young and stupid. Thankfully if we survive to old age, we're a little wiser for the ride. I'd rather look at the life in toto to gauge where a person is at.

And in a related topic, When it comes to Mental issues, I'm all for keeping violent, mentally disturbed people safe along with those around them. But who gets to decide who's mentally disturbed? What level of disturbed is too disturbed? Because trust me, Everyone has a touch of disturbed from time to time.

[C-dub]

I keep seeing this question over and over. I understand the law and it is what it is. Among us there is no one that hasn't done something stupid at some point in their life. Whether or not you were caught is the question....

There really needs to be a way to fix this. A bad decision you made when young and dumb shouldn't haunt you the remainder of your life. At some point you've paid your dues. Am I the only one that believes this? I believe this is something the would benefit a great number of people that were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Saying that we were all young and dumb and did stupid things is one thing and sounds cute, but we all have not done things to get us DQed from having a CHL. I wasn't caught because I didn't do anything disqualifying to get caught doing. Yeah, I did stupid things, but nothing illegal like that.

Pushing your spouse, girlfriend/boyfriend, son, daughter or any intimate partner can get you a misdemeanor family violence conviction. I understand what you mean, but we have to consider the changes to federal law and to some extent state law. I know a man who was convicted of family violence for pushing his drunk wife into a sitting position on the couch. Some people are now pushing to make verbal and/or emotional abuse a criminal offense. People better wake up and stop this very dangerous trend.

Chas.

Absolutely Charles! Changes and or some common sense is needed. Some things, such as your example and Clarionite's, were either blown way out of proportion or completely twisted around and I do feel sorry for the real victims in those situations.

[ScottDLS]

I keep seeing this question over and over. I understand the law and it is what it is. Among us there is no one that hasn't done something stupid at some point in their life. Whether or not you were caught is the question....

There really needs to be a way to fix this. A bad decision you made when young and dumb shouldn't haunt you the remainder of your life. At some point you've paid your dues. Am I the only one that believes this? I believe this is something the would benefit a great number of people that were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Saying that we were all young and dumb and did stupid things is one thing and sounds cute, but we all have not done things to get us DQed from having a CHL. I wasn't caught because I didn't do anything disqualifying to get caught doing. Yeah, I did stupid things, but nothing illegal like that.

Pushing your spouse, girlfriend/boyfriend, son, daughter or any intimate partner can get you a misdemeanor family violence conviction. I understand what you mean, but we have to consider the changes to federal law and to some extent state law. I know a man who was convicted of family violence for pushing his drunk wife into a sitting position on the couch. Some people are now pushing to make verbal and/or emotional abuse a criminal offense. People better wake up and stop this very dangerous trend.

Chas.

I'm 100% with you on this, We've got class c misdemeanants with lifetime federal firearms ban. The Federal "domestic violence" definition is very loose. I think that states could define it "out" of the federal prohibition, maybe.... And also know that there is no clear way to identify "DV" in the federal system. Especially problematic is the woman ('cause it's always a woman, right??) who copped to a class c or b before Sen Lautenberg's law, for shoving her husband. And the female that "slapped" her intimate partner for making a sexist remark...

[clarionite]

I'm 100% with you on this, We've got class c misdemeanants with lifetime federal firearms ban. The Federal "domestic violence" definition is very loose. I think that states could define it "out" of the federal prohibition, maybe.... And also know that there is no clear way to identify "DV" in the federal system. Especially problematic is the woman ('cause it's always a woman, right??) who copped to a class c or b before Sen Lautenberg's law, for shoving her husband. And the female that "slapped" her intimate partner for making a sexist remark...

I'm no more OK with a woman slapping a man than I am with a man slapping a woman. Neither are appropriate in my book.

[ScottDLS]

I'm 100% with you on this, We've got class c misdemeanants with lifetime federal firearms ban. The Federal "domestic violence" definition is very loose. I think that states could define it "out" of the federal prohibition, maybe.... And also know that there is no clear way to identify "DV" in the federal system. Especially problematic is the woman ('cause it's always a woman, right??) who copped to a class c or b before Sen Lautenberg's law, for shoving her husband. And the female that "slapped" her intimate partner for making a sexist remark...

I'm no more OK with a woman slapping a man than I am with a man slapping a woman. Neither are appropriate in my book.

do you consider such "slapping" a felony that should permanently ban a woman from owning a gun?

[SewTexas]

since getting our CHL's, and being on this board, and having friends with security clearances, etc I've learned so much about how long things can stay with you. I've also had opportunities to work with teens over the years. One of the things I tell them is that they don't have the opportunity to make "young and dumb" decisions anymore and I explain why.

[clarionite]

I'm 100% with you on this, We've got class c misdemeanants with lifetime federal firearms ban. The Federal "domestic violence" definition is very loose. I think that states could define it "out" of the federal prohibition, maybe.... And also know that there is no clear way to identify "DV" in the federal system. Especially problematic is the woman ('cause it's always a woman, right??) who copped to a class c or b before Sen Lautenberg's law, for shoving her husband. And the female that "slapped" her intimate partner for making a sexist remark...

I'm no more OK with a woman slapping a man than I am with a man slapping a woman. Neither are appropriate in my book.

do you consider such "slapping" a felony that should permanently ban a woman from owning a gun?

I don't see it any different than any other adult slapping another adult.

Why is it different?

[C-dub]

I'm 100% with you on this, We've got class c misdemeanants with lifetime federal firearms ban. The Federal "domestic violence" definition is very loose. I think that states could define it "out" of the federal prohibition, maybe.... And also know that there is no clear way to identify "DV" in the federal system. Especially problematic is the woman ('cause it's always a woman, right??) who copped to a class c or b before Sen Lautenberg's law, for shoving her husband. And the female that "slapped" her intimate partner for making a sexist remark...

I'm no more OK with a woman slapping a man than I am with a man slapping a woman. Neither are appropriate in my book.

do you consider such "slapping" a felony that should permanently ban a woman from owning a gun?

I don't see it any different than any other adult slapping another adult.

Why is it different?

The laws may be specific regarding a man slapping a woman, but I doubt it. The question at this point in this discussion is whether or not you think a slap deserves a permanent deferral.

[ScottDLS]

I'm 100% with you on this, We've got class c misdemeanants with lifetime federal firearms ban. The Federal "domestic violence" definition is very loose. I think that states could define it "out" of the federal prohibition, maybe.... And also know that there is no clear way to identify "DV" in the federal system. Especially problematic is the woman ('cause it's always a woman, right??) who copped to a class c or b before Sen Lautenberg's law, for shoving her husband. And the female that "slapped" her intimate partner for making a sexist remark...

I'm no more OK with a woman slapping a man than I am with a man slapping a woman. Neither are appropriate in my book.

do you consider such "slapping" a felony that should permanently ban a woman from owning a gun?

I don't see it any different than any other adult slapping another adult.

Why is it different?

The laws may be specific regarding a man slapping a woman, but I doubt it. The question at this point in this discussion is whether or not you think a slap deserves a permanent deferral.

and also what constitutes a permanent bar from firearm ownership. Speeding kills. I think we should have a vehicular violence law. Speed and you can never carry. My intimate partner has elbowed me when I made comment about xer gender identity. that is by definition DV. it has nothing to do with gender.... I am cis Female in transition....but anyway why is DV the special misdemeanor?

[Charles L. Cotton]

No misdemeanor should impact Second Amendment rights. By definition, misdemeanors are crimes and people should not engage in conduct that violates criminal codes. However, misdemeanors are considered less serious offenses and constitutional rights should not be forfeited for an act that society considers to be a relatively minor crime.

Chas.

[sugar land dave]

No misdemeanor should impact Second Amendment rights. By definition, misdemeanors are crimes and people should not engage in conduct that violates criminal codes. However, misdemeanors are considered less serious offenses and constitutional rights should not be forfeited for an act that society considers to be a relatively minor crime.

Chas.

I hear you, but Texas politicians do not, at least in enough numbers to fix the problem, thus our concealed carry rights remain somewhat nebulous. I know you work hard to clarify the laws, but Texas politics often moves very slowly. I hope we can celebrate a day when there are no gray areas in the interpretation of rights, but based oh history, probably not in my lifetime.

[CleotisWalther86]

I have a similar issue. I'm 28 now, and 12 and 13 when I was arrested for fighting with my younger brother who is 3 years younger than me. I wish I didn't have to wonder if my CHL application is going to go through because of these arrests. I haven't been able to get a copy of my sealed records or disposition. All I can get is a letter from the court saying that there are no such records available which is what I sent to DPS. I don't even have dates or the exact charges.

I've never had an issue purchasing a firearm in Texas or anywhere, and I even received a low level security clearance when I was in the Navy. I spoke with a lawyer at [Pre-paid legal service] who told me that this fact was key. If I've been able to purchase firearms, then I should be fine is what she said. But this pops up occasionally for different reasons. I even had an internship with Merrill Lynch, and they could see that I was arrested as the result of my background check, but not the nature of my arrests (which is even worse than them knowing the details in my case, because they're left wondering what kind of awful criminal they've hired.)

I understand the recidivism rates, but there should be a process for the statistical anomalies to regain their rights (especially when they were never in a position to defend themselves as a minor, where in many cases, the people in charge of making decisions regarding their defense, were the same people who called the police in the first place, their parent(s).)) 15 years, 2 combat tours, graduating from high school and college, marrying, and having children have not earned me any peace of mind. Incidentally, my brother and I are very close these days.