What's your opinion - NOT calling 911 after a SD shooting

[Ruark]

Here's a guy, a private investigator, with some pretty hard nosed advice. I've always been taught that the VERY first thing you should do in a self defense shooting is call 911. He advises leaving the scene immediately, calling your lawyer and letting HIM call 911. A lot of what he's saying is true, however, about how you can easily hang yourself by talking to the 911 operator or the police. Still, the idea of fleeing from the scene makes me nervous. It would be interesting to hear some opinions.

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[jmra]

The only way I would consider leaving the scene of a crime is if my safety dictated it or my last name was Kennedy.

[RPBrown]

The only way I would consider leaving the scene of a crime is if my safety dictated if or my last name was Kennedy.

"or if my last name was Kennedy"

If it was a self defense shooting, I would not leave the scene. I would call 911 first and my attorney immediately after that.

[E.Marquez]

I've been told
I've seen it in action
I know what I will do.

The first caller is the victim, all others are suspects.. Be the first caller.

[Cedar Park Dad]

EDIT: Calling your attorney is a good idea. I'd likely call 911 first and them second.

Leaving the scene would be appropriate if the situation was still dangerous, but it is advisable to go to the nearest place of safety and calling 911 while you do it (if you can).

[jmra]

The first caller is the victim, all others are suspects.. Be the first caller.

I would be on the phone just as soon as it was safe to do so.

[oljames3]

First, I call 911, especially if anyone needs medical assitance.

The lawyers at [Pre-paid legal service] say "Call 911, request police and ambulance – do not say anything other than your name, location, send police and ambulance, and that you have been a victim of a crime. The 911 call is recorded – Say Nothing Else!"

Then I call my lawyer and stay put.

Leaving the scene, that seems counterproductive. I feel it best to remain so I can do all I can to identify witnesses, prevent any disturbance to the scene prior to the police taking control, and work to ensure they understand that I am the victim when they arrive.

Here's a guy, a private investigator, with some pretty hard nosed advice. I've always been taught that the VERY first thing you should do in a self defense shooting is call 911. He advises leaving the scene immediately, calling your lawyer and letting HIM call 911. A lot of what he's saying is true, however, about how you can easily hang yourself by talking to the 911 operator or the police. Still, the idea of fleeing from the scene makes me nervous. It would be interesting to hear some opinions.

[ELB]

Paul Huebl is an interesting commentator. He is a former policeman, Chicago I believe, and has been an PI for a long time, mostly in support of criminal defense attorneys IIRC. I haven't read his stuff for a long time, but when I did he was staunchly pro2A, and staunchly pro-defendant, loved the entertainment and media aspects of stuff, and often had an interesting, contrarian opinion about high-profile cases of the day. I haven't watched the whole video yet, but from the first few minutes it appears he hasn't changed much in this regard. His website/blog is here: http://www.crimefilenews.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Oh, and here's a recent post where he describes himself: http://www.crimefilenews.com/2015/02/pe ... ly-do.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As for leaving the scene, then calling 911 -- The whole point of a "self-defense shooting" is to survive with as few injuries as possible, so if the scene is still not safe for me and mine, we will depart and go somewhere where it is (relatively) safe for me and mine and then call the cops. I'm not going to worry so much about whether it "looks bad" or not -- first, survive the situation, then deal with the "after", including calling 911. If everything seems cool at the scene, then sure, I will stay and call from there -- I'm not going to always stay put or always leave. But calling 911 and all that is not job one.

[Keith B]

A very wise man that owns this forum will tell you that when safe to do so, immediately call 911. Advise them 'My name is------. I just had to shoot a man/woman that attacked me with a (gun/knife/etc). Please send an ambulance and police to (the location of the shooting). Don't stay on the phone and answer their questions, just hang up and wait for the police, and don't have your gun out when they arrive.

When the police arrive, give just the basic info of what happened like 'This man came out of nowhere and tried to stab me with a knife. I was in fear for my life so I had to shoot to stop the attack' (That's all you are doing is trying to 'stop' the attack, not kill the person. After that, if they ask me additional info I will tell them 'I would love to answer more questions, but I really don't feel well and think I am gonna throw up (you probably will feel this way truthfully). Tell them you will be happy to answer additional questions once you have settled down. That hopefully will get them to back off and allow you time to contact a lawyer and have your mind in order for any questions when your lawyer is present. Be polite, don' totally clam up, but don't run off at the mouth. The saying is 'Don't let your mouth ruin a good shoot'.

[karder]

The only way I would consider leaving the scene of a crime is if my safety dictated it or my last name was Kennedy.

That is funny!

I am not a lawyer and don't know much about lawyering so always keep that in mind. Still it seems that if you have to shoot someone, staying on the scene and waiting for the police would be the right thing to do. I can see the wisdom in not giving a statement of any sort without legal representation, but it seems to me that leaving the scene would only muck things up. Maybe if the shooting is questionable, mucking things up is a good tactic, but if you did everything right and it was unavoidable, why cloud the circumstances by leaving?

There is a guy in my industry that I am professionally acquainted with who is not exactly an upstanding citizen and is always mixed up in something he shouldn't be. He is a slim ball in other words who used to be a very heavy drinker and always speeding home from the bars after last call. I only casually know the guy and was told the story by a co-worker I know well who worked closely with him. I was told this incident happened in Florida.
Almost two decades ago this guy hit and killed a pedestrian while driving drunk, and fled the scene. When he got home he called his attorney and told him what happened as there were a lot of witnesses and he figured the cops would track him down fast. His attorney told him to start drinking at the house and that he would call the police. The police showed up and arrested him. Later his attorney argued that this guy was not driving drunk and that he left the scene because he got scared and had a PTSD (or whatever they called it 20 years ago) type experience which cause him to panic and flee home a couple of blocks away. Once he got home, he started drinking to calm his nerves and that is why he had alcohol in his system. There were a lot of other issues (the guy he ran over was homeless and also drunk) but at the end of the day, he ended up with probation and did no jail time. It was very shady and dishonest and sadly, this guy didn't seem to learn a darn thing from the experience except to keep a lawyer on speed dial.

[ELB]

Another thought, not about calling 911, but when considering all the sources of advice - Paul Huebl, "A very wise man that owns this forum..." Massad Ayoob, that law professor who says never talk to the police etc...

All of these people have their experience in specific environments. In Paul Huebl's case, he started out as a cop in Chicago. He works as a PI and I think his base is in Arizona, but a lot of his work is in California. Massad Ayoob is in Massachusetts (last time I looked), and those are very different regimes from Texas or Indiana. On the whole, I think Texas is more reasonable and open-minded to armed citizens defending themselves than Mass or Cali, and in general this affects how most police and prosecutors view the situation.

But of course is it not a sure bet, and not every cop or jurisdiction in Texas is the same, so I still think saying as little as possible and letting a lawyer handle most of it is good advice. What's up for discussion is "how little". Huebl is one on far end of that little spectrum, and it is likely that in the less-free parts of the US, that could indeed be the best advice. Me I tend more towards calling when it's safe and making myself the complainant, pointing out the bad guy and any weapons he used, but I am not going to get so wrapped around "being first" that I fail to first make sure I am (again, relatively) safe.

[rbwhatever1]

I'm calling 1911 as soon as possible...wait

I'm with Keith B. Just the basics to 911 immediately and hang up, but leaving the scene is not an option unless its unsafe to remain. I would highly advise against killing someone and fleeing the scene to call an attorney. What happens if someone saw you and you couldn't get in contact with your attorney and got pulled over and arrested 5 minutes later? You're toast. This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of. Innocent victims don't have this mentality. We didn't do anything wrong.

But don't listen to me since I have ZERO experience on fleeing any crime scenes....

[Ruark]

A very wise man that owns this forum will tell you that when safe to do so, immediately call 911. Advise them 'My name is------. I just had to shoot a man/woman that attacked me with a (gun/knife/etc). Please send an ambulance and police to (the location of the shooting). Don't stay on the phone and answer their questions, just hang up and wait for the police, and don't have your gun out when they arrive.

When the police arrive, give just the basic info of what happened like 'This man came out of nowhere and tried to stab me with a knife. I was in fear for my life so I had to shoot to stop the attack'

I tend to agree, although I've heard many times to NOT say you had to shoot (even in self defense), because in so doing, you're confessing. It's kinda hard to imagine saying anything else, though, with a guy lying dead on the pavement right in front of you.

[Keith B]

A very wise man that owns this forum will tell you that when safe to do so, immediately call 911. Advise them 'My name is------. I just had to shoot a man/woman that attacked me with a (gun/knife/etc). Please send an ambulance and police to (the location of the shooting). Don't stay on the phone and answer their questions, just hang up and wait for the police, and don't have your gun out when they arrive.

When the police arrive, give just the basic info of what happened like 'This man came out of nowhere and tried to stab me with a knife. I was in fear for my life so I had to shoot to stop the attack'

I tend to agree, although I've heard many times to NOT say you had to shoot (even in self defense), because in so doing, you're confessing. It's kinda hard to imagine saying anything else, though, with a guy lying dead on the pavement right in front of you.

The other thing is if you state it was shooting, then response will be priority one by the police and ambulance. You want them there as fast as possible. And as stated, when they arrive make sure you don't appear to be a threat to them by having your weapon out and exposed.

[cb1000rider]

He is a former policeman, Chicago I believe..

That kinda explains it...