RPBrown wrote:I see a few fails here that may get him convicted. However, I am just going from the attached article.
(1) They did not call 911 (at least the article doesn't say they did)
(2) They went in searching for an intruder instead of waiting on Police
(3) They shot the suspect as he was running away and the threat was over. The report did not say if the suspect had anything with him.
(4) It was not their property. Yes, I guess the argument could be made that it was technically under their control, but not sure a grand jury will see it that way.
In retrospect, I hope that no charges are filed and they are cleared. One BG eliminated from the gene pool.
If it were me, and I do watch neighbors homes as they do mine from time to time, I would do the following:
(1) Call 911. This is a must even if the alarm is going off.
(2) If both me and my wife are there and armed, go to front and back of house OUTSIDE and wait on either police to arrive of BG to try and leave.
(3) If he comes out with stuff, then I may shoot if he doesn't stop. If he is empty handed, then probably not. I would however detain him.
(4) See 1-3 above.
My thoughts are more or less the same. Call police, wait outside and cover exits until police arrive or until he attempts to leave. If he attempts to leave before the police show up I don't know if I'd even shoot him with handfuls of stuff. It's not my stuff, depends is he running at me or away from me? Parallel to me? What stuff is in his hands? I'd probably order him to the ground at gunpoint though. I hate thieves and prior to my CCW course I'd probably have said I'd have shot him even if he was holding a pack of Bubblicious I didn't believe belonged to him. However, after finding out that all gun charges in TX go to grand jury and grand jury costs $10k minimum, I've changed my tune.
The grand jury doesn't cost $10,000. My understanding is your lawyer has no say at the grand jury. What costs $10,000 is retaining a lawyer and him doing the necessary prep work in case it goes to trial or you get sued.
You can also sign on with one of those legal CHL insurance groups then you will be covered.
RPBrown wrote:I see a few fails here that may get him convicted. However, I am just going from the attached article.
(1) They did not call 911 (at least the article doesn't say they did)
(2) They went in searching for an intruder instead of waiting on Police
(3) They shot the suspect as he was running away and the threat was over. The report did not say if the suspect had anything with him.
(4) It was not their property. Yes, I guess the argument could be made that it was technically under their control, but not sure a grand jury will see it that way.
In retrospect, I hope that no charges are filed and they are cleared. One BG eliminated from the gene pool.
If it were me, and I do watch neighbors homes as they do mine from time to time, I would do the following:
(1) Call 911. This is a must even if the alarm is going off.
(2) If both me and my wife are there and armed, go to front and back of house OUTSIDE and wait on either police to arrive of BG to try and leave.
(3) If he comes out with stuff, then I may shoot if he doesn't stop. If he is empty handed, then probably not. I would however detain him.
(4) See 1-3 above.
My thoughts are more or less the same. Call police, wait outside and cover exits until police arrive or until he attempts to leave. If he attempts to leave before the police show up I don't know if I'd even shoot him with handfuls of stuff. It's not my stuff, depends is he running at me or away from me? Parallel to me? What stuff is in his hands? I'd probably order him to the ground at gunpoint though. I hate thieves and prior to my CCW course I'd probably have said I'd have shot him even if he was holding a pack of Bubblicious I didn't believe belonged to him. However, after finding out that all gun charges in TX go to grand jury and grand jury costs $10k minimum, I've changed my tune.
The grand jury doesn't cost $10,000. My understanding is your lawyer has no say at the grand jury. What costs $10,000 is retaining a lawyer and him doing the necessary prep work in case it goes to trial or you get sued.
You can also sign on with one of those legal CHL insurance groups then you will be covered.
You may want to take another look at those CHL insurance groups. The ones that I have looked say in fine print that they will cover you up to and including the grand jury. This tells me if you are indicted, you are on your own.
RPBrown wrote:
You may want to take another look at those CHL insurance groups. The ones that I have looked say in fine print that they will cover you up to and including the grand jury. This tells me if you are indicted, you are on your own.
That's a very interesting qualification, as all of them are sold "verbally" as covering the costs of your legal defense. Most people just believe what they hear.
They should say, "We'll cover the costs of defending you, unless a grand jury thinks you might be guilty...."
RPBrown wrote:
You may want to take another look at those CHL insurance groups. The ones that I have looked say in fine print that they will cover you up to and including the grand jury. This tells me if you are indicted, you are on your own.
That's a very interesting qualification, as all of them are sold "verbally" as covering the costs of your legal defense. Most people just believe what they hear.
They should say, "We'll cover the costs of defending you, unless a grand jury thinks you might be guilty...."
Yea, big hole.
But if the shoot is righteous you should be OK, unless you happen to have a prosecutor with an anti-gun agenda, and how likely is that?
"Journalism, n. A job for people who flunked out of STEM courses, enjoy making up stories, and have no detectable integrity or morals."
cb1000rider wrote:
That's a very interesting qualification, as all of them are sold "verbally" as covering the costs of your legal defense. Most people just believe what they hear.
They should say, "We'll cover the costs of defending you, unless a grand jury thinks you might be guilty...."
Yea, big hole.
The one I am looking at in my hand says specifically "Legal representation anywhere in Texas by our lawyers for any and all 1) Police investigations, 2) Grand Jury Proceeding, 3) Criminal and/or Civil Trials"
The third one seems to cover that 'big hole'.
S&W M&P Shield 9
Does anyone know of a trick to help me remember the word 'mnemonic'?
cb1000rider wrote:
That's a very interesting qualification, as all of them are sold "verbally" as covering the costs of your legal defense. Most people just believe what they hear.
They should say, "We'll cover the costs of defending you, unless a grand jury thinks you might be guilty...."
Yea, big hole.
The one I am looking at in my hand says specifically "Legal representation anywhere in Texas by our lawyers for any and all 1) Police investigations, 2) Grand Jury Proceeding, 3) Criminal and/or Civil Trials"
The third one seems to cover that 'big hole'.
Which one are you looking at?
Besides, at night, if the neighbor had said that he could help keep watch over his property, Texas law does give you the right to shoot in defense of property. As for $$$ retaining a lawyer for the grand jury, you'll have to do that anyways, even if it were a "cleaner good shoot". Besides, depending on how close he was to his neighbor, it might regard his neighbor's home as sacred as his own and feared for the safety of his neighbor's life. Also, it doesn't matter if the perp is shot in the back at night because it is very hard to see if a perp is running away from you or towards you at night and it is also very hard to see if the perp is armed at night. That's why Texas law allows deadly force in defense of property at night, to give the victim the benefit of the doubt. As long as the victim doesn't blab his big mouth and say things that will incriminate himself, he'll be fine.
AlgoaAggie91 wrote:
The one I am looking at in my hand says specifically "Legal representation anywhere in Texas by our lawyers for any and all 1) Police investigations, 2) Grand Jury Proceeding, 3) Criminal and/or Civil Trials"
The third one seems to cover that 'big hole'.
Which one are you looking at?
[Pre-paid legal service] (I have no connection to [Pre-paid legal service] other than being a customer)
S&W M&P Shield 9
Does anyone know of a trick to help me remember the word 'mnemonic'?
RPBrown wrote:
You may want to take another look at those CHL insurance groups. The ones that I have looked say in fine print that they will cover you up to and including the grand jury. This tells me if you are indicted, you are on your own.
I was at a seminar last week for [pre-paid legal]. I deliberately asked if they cover just the questioning/grand jury or do they cover everything. He told me,now keep in mind I did not see this in writing, that they would cover all lawyer including ciminal trial & civil trial as long as you were not breakng laws during the shooting.
RPBrown wrote:
You may want to take another look at those CHL insurance groups. The ones that I have looked say in fine print that they will cover you up to and including the grand jury. This tells me if you are indicted, you are on your own.
I was at a seminar last week for [pre-paid legal]. I deliberately asked if they cover just the questioning/grand jury or do they cover everything. He told me,now keep in mind I did not see this in writing, that they would cover all lawyer including ciminal trial & civil trial as long as you were not breakng laws during the shooting.
Who determines if you were breaking laws? Isn't that what the trial is for?
Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.
John Wayne
NRA Lifetime member
RPBrown wrote:
You may want to take another look at those CHL insurance groups. The ones that I have looked say in fine print that they will cover you up to and including the grand jury. This tells me if you are indicted, you are on your own.
I was at a seminar last week for [pre-paid legal]. I deliberately asked if they cover just the questioning/grand jury or do they cover everything. He told me,now keep in mind I did not see this in writing, that they would cover all lawyer including ciminal trial & civil trial as long as you were not breakng laws during the shooting.
Who determines if you were breaking laws? Isn't that what the trial is for?
That sets up a perverse incentive, doesn't it?
If the lawyer wins the case and gets you acquitted, you don't owe him any money.
Conversely, if he loses the case and you are found guilty, now you owe him for the legal work.
Not sure I want a lawyer who loses money if he wins my case!
