Carrying At Home

[Jumping Frog]

A home invasion does not have to be armed.

Of course not. I was merely painting one example out of a whole universe of scenarios.

TPC Sections 9.31-9.32 alone are almost 1000 words, and that isn't even getting into defense of third persons, much less property.

[jbarn]

i suppose but whats thought provoking for me is if something did happen like someone breaking down the door and the firearm was used how would the factor of sobriety play in? would it still be just as cut and dry as you being sober and shooting someone breaking into your home? or not?

This is not an easy yes/no, black/white, on/off kind of question. There are many permutations and shades of gray.

First, it is not illegal to be intoxicated or possess a firearm while intoxicated inside your own home (in Texas) (Note that a CHL is not carrying under authority of their license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.)

So if you are dealing with a clear-cut case where deadly force is justified under Texas law, such as an armed home invasion, being intoxicated does not remove one's justification to use deadly force.

More worrisome and realistic, however, would be in a situation that is not clear cut, and a drunk making some judgment error that gets someone shot who shouldn't have been shot. That would be the nightmare scenario.

Keep in mind they can still sue you for wrongful death and you would have to prove you were not impaired enough for it to have effected your judgement.

Can you cite a law or precedent that makes that true?

[ShootDontTalk]

Civil law. Someone can sue you for serving them a glass of spoiled milk. No law or precedent needed.

[sjfcontrol]

Civil law. Someone can sue you for serving them a glass of spoiled milk. No law or precedent needed.

CPRC § 83.001. CIVIL IMMUNITY. A defendant who uses force or deadly force that is justified under Chapter 9, Penal Code, is immune from civil liability for personal injury or death that results from the defendant’s use of force or deadly force, as applicable.

[Excaliber]

If my kids have a friend stop in, they are going to see the dad walking around in a t-shirt and a gun. If has never been a big deal one way or the other.

Not a big deal, but I bet the daughter's dates are more polite and get her home on time, right?

It sure worked with my daughter's dates.

[Barbi Q]

Civil law. Someone can sue you for serving them a glass of spoiled milk. No law or precedent needed.

For some reason I'm not too concerned about a diner suing for spoiled milk or a rapist suing because I shot them.

Maybe it's because I live in Texas.

[ShootDontTalk]

I'm not concerned about being sued either, but if there is one thing I have learned from 40 years of watching our justice system work is that sometimes lawyers, prosecutors and judges care little about what is actually written in the law - especially when it is a high profile case during an election year with lots of media attention. Getting someone in the courtroom is more important than winning the case or getting a conviction. Legal immunity may help with the final verdict, but won't help with the ruinous legal fees.

Now do I have specific cases to cite? No. That hardly means it can't happen tomorrow. Come to think of it, I can't recall the subject of drunken self defense shooting ever coming up. You think they happened and the liberal media just let the story go because of immunity? Somehow I doubt it.

[Fuchs]

If for whatever reason he would have to use his weapon after having a few, his ability to make sound and logical decision would come under scrutiny by the legal system whether it be in criminal or civil court depending on the circumstances surrounding the shooting.

I have to admit. Locking up your EDC and getting killed by a BG is a sure fire way to avoid any future legal worries.

[rockinar]

So I thought I would start thread bringing up the topic of carrying at home. Any input is interesting and welcomed. Considering anyone that can own a weapon can carry in their own home I think this could be a helpful topic for everyone -non chl holders as well. Anything involving concealed carry at home, open carry at home, carrying in your apartment, anything relevant.

As many of us know alcohol and firearms do not mix but i was in a heated debate with a friend of mine (a non chl holder) about carrying at home. he was carrying open in a holster and from what i understand it is legal because he is in his own home. The debate started when we cracked open some cold beers and he didn't put his weapon away. What do y'all think about that. opinions. comments? Lets get this goin!

His house, his rules.

[abom2]

First off a few caveats:
1. I am not a lawyer nor any education in the legal field.
2. I am not yet currently a CHL but have been licensed in the past in other states, wherever my duty station was.
3. My thought process is based on 20+ yrs of military service (active and reserve) in two branches of service.
4. I grew up in a time period here when gun racks w/guns in them were the norm at school.

When growing up and hunting in groups two rules applied in camp:
Rule #1: No alcohol in camp
Rule #2: Empty chambers when camp was in sight or you knew you were within rifle shot of camp.

Military protocol when under arms and alcohol present:(This was how we operated, no one told us to do this, it just seemed right.)
1. Establish roving guard which was armed. Participants in alcohol refreshments did not have firearms at hand. Gear guard on weapons would make available as needed.

I am of course biased about guns and alcohol due to the environment I was brought up in. The two were kept separated the same as matches and gasoline. One only used matches to light the gasoline in controlled scenario's and circumstances. (Think fire ants)

During and after Hurricane Ike all firearms where loaded. Those not carried on person had the chamber empty. Wife opted not to carry but to keep one close at hand. Teenage son carried the same way a Dad. Daughter emulated mom. Some neighbors carried, some did not, all helped with over-watch of neighborhood.

During this time period there was plenty of manual work to be done cleaning up and reducing debris to manageable sizes. It seemed strange to some neighbors to have a posted over-watch while others worked but seemed normal for myself and a few others who had been in the service. I can report that during the entire month that we were out of power that no weapons were pointed or discharged. The road in front of my house dead ends with a cul de sac that takes of to the west off of it. In other words, one way in and out. We controlled traffic at the entrance and during the first hours after the storm had eased up we turned around and pointed out the best route to the main thoroughfare to two vehicles that were not from our little neighborhood. Funny thing was these folks did not appear from our area at all. Constable and Sheriffs office did patrol some but elected to not turn down our little streets. (Allowing them to serve other areas) We did have cold bottled water for them and any other emergency personnel who wanted to stop and chat.

My fifth wheel became a shower and cool down point for our little street group. Several neighbors had infants and toddlers, this became a good spot for them to stay cool and clean, besides safely off to the side.

I apologize if this is long but, I want it clear that we were not roving around armed to the teeth looking menacing.

I would elect in the scenario the poster is querying about to have a designated carrier just as one should have a designated driver when alcohol is being consumed.

Again, apologies for the long post.

[jmra]

Welcome to the forum abom2.

[JKTex]

So I thought I would start thread bringing up the topic of carrying at home. Any input is interesting and welcomed. Considering anyone that can own a weapon can carry in their own home I think this could be a helpful topic for everyone -non chl holders as well. Anything involving concealed carry at home, open carry at home, carrying in your apartment, anything relevant.

As many of us know alcohol and firearms do not mix but i was in a heated debate with a friend of mine (a non chl holder) about carrying at home. he was carrying open in a holster and from what i understand it is legal because he is in his own home. The debate started when we cracked open some cold beers and he didn't put his weapon away. What do y'all think about that. opinions. comments? Lets get this goin!

Ask 4 people the same question and get 4 different opinions. Do it on a web forum and get 17 different arguments.

If you don't like being around your buddy while drinking and having a firearm on him, don't stay. If you trust he's responsible and aren't worried about it, stay.

Or we could go with post #2

Your house, your rules.
His house, his rules.

This simple logic can defuse political, religious and just about any other discussion that elevated to a debate because people have different opinions and beliefs. It's a secret weapon called tolerance which everyone has, but few are brave enough to use.

[JKTex]

i suppose but whats thought provoking for me is if something did happen like someone breaking down the door and the firearm was used how would the factor of sobriety play in? would it still be just as cut and dry as you being sober and shooting someone breaking into your home? or not?

This is not an easy yes/no, black/white, on/off kind of question. There are many permutations and shades of gray.

First, it is not illegal to be intoxicated or possess a firearm while intoxicated inside your own home (in Texas) (Note that a CHL is not carrying under authority of their license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.)

So if you are dealing with a clear-cut case where deadly force is justified under Texas law, such as an armed home invasion, being intoxicated does not remove one's justification to use deadly force.

More worrisome and realistic, however, would be in a situation that is not clear cut, and a drunk making some judgment error that gets someone shot who shouldn't have been shot. That would be the nightmare scenario.

Keep in mind they can still sue you for wrongful death and you would have to prove you were not impaired enough for it to have effected your judgement.

If you went to Law School, or a seminar, you should get your money back.

And this is how these kinds of hypothetical threads regarding personal choice goes every time.

[RedRaiderCHL]

RedRaiderCHL,

I don't carry at home, but pistols are never far away...

My bar is fully stocked.

Now, if I lived in a low quality neighborhood or there was a prison escape in my area or an outbreak of civil unrest was happening, I'd darn sure wear a pistol on my hip inside the house. Heck, maybe two...and if I wanted to have a drink, I would.

Abraham, I live in a neighborhood that leans to the dangerous side so when im at home i carry, especially when i have people i care about over. My front door is a heavy reinforced door (heavier than a nice hotel door) and I know that as big as i am if i would have trouble getting through that then anyone else that could is definitely getting 2 in the chest as soon as they get through the door.

As for some of the other posts I do fall more in-line with the belief "his house, his rules - my house, my rules" and having said that no im not a hypocrite by calling him out. he's my best bud and since the original post we have been at my place and the same thing has happened, (minus the debate). i was carrying, we cracked open a couple cold ones, and by the time i finished my second and he was reminding me to lock it up. We do have similar views on it. Personally If im drinking at home with the purpose of getting intoxicated then i lock it up. but if im comin home from work and just popping open a cold one (and just one or two) then i dont necessarily lock it up. but to each his own i guess.