Hands Vs. Guns by Gabe Suarez

[Paladin]

Since we've been talking about this in one of the other topics and there seem to be a few misperceptions, I thought I would post this. This stuff does take practice to do properly, and would normally only be used if you think you're about to die anyway.

You shiver slightly from the cold evening air as you reach up to retrieve your receipt from the ATM machine. Your stretch your neck around, muscles are still sore from yesterday’s workout. It’s been a long hard day and you’re glad it’s almost over. The hunger in your belly reminds you of the next errand on the list. Just one more stop at the all-night grocery store and…

“Alright! Give me your money, and your keys!�

Startled, you turn around at the sound of the voice, the content of his words not yet registering in your brain. He’s a rough looking street person, about 20, unshaven, hairy, dirty, and he smells bad. He looks like he’s on drugs. Your eyes survey him and then surprise turns to sudden shock as you see the chrome-plated revolver in his trembling and tattooed hand!

The situation you just read about has happened many times, both to accomplished martial artists as well as to armed off-duty police officers. Hopeless? Not at all. But this situation carries with it, some dynamics that cannot be answered with a speedy fast-draw nor with a spinning back kick. To win this encounter, and by all means it is very winnable, you must understand several things about the realities of human conflict at close quarters.

Primarily, you must have your “warrior mind� set correctly. Winning a real fight requires controlled violence. You must be able to call up your “dragon� on demand and become a fierce feral creature instead of the domesticated human you have been raised to be. If you are not emotionally and psychologically prepared to rip your adversary’s heart out of his chest and barbecue it in front of his fading eyes, forget about trying anything. Your best bet, if you lack for a killer attitude, is to simply submit, be nice to him and give him what he wants, and hope for the best. I do not believe that giving in is a viable option to consider, and presumably, neither do you. Even if you think that you’ll never stand up to the gun, I can paint many scenarios where you might choose to do so. If you agree, then lets have a look at how to solve this problem and win the day.

First of all, I am not advocating that any secret skills or ancient martial art, nor any new technique can withstand a bullet. Any martial artist that thinks otherwise has been smoking too much rice paper. But if we understand the adversary’s motivation, we can find a way to defeat him. Let's look at his motivation.

If he simply wanted to kill you, the hoodlum in the story would just walk up to you, unannounced, and summarily shoot you without warning. Regardless of how many years of training you have or how many arts you know, nobody will be able to defend against that! If it’s your day to die, then there’s not much you can do except die with style.

The hoodlum in the story, as well as most people who will point guns at you (as opposed to simply shooting you), are doing so for reasons of intimidation. Their objective is to place you in a position of tactical disadvantage and “bargain� with you for something they want. The bargain is typically that if you do as they say, they will not kill you. (Your money or your life is the classic line, although females often receive a modified offer). By the very fact of their intent, they provide you with the opening you need to defeat them.

Lets look at the two men in the story. A simplified view of the events: The hoodlum has the pistol pointed at the hero. The hero is surprised (I know, I know, we are always on alert. Let’s just pretend that we are having a bad day and weren’t paying attention). The hoodlum makes his demands and then "waits" for the expected compliance and response of the hero. In essence, the hoodlum is “Pause�, waiting for the “Return� of the hero. The hero can go either way at this point: comply or fight. If he understands the dynamics of human reaction time, he can come out of this quite well.

Every conflict, whether between countries or individuals is a cycle whereby each party observes the other, orients himself according to those observations, decides on a course of action, and finally puts that decision into action. This is called the OODA loop. It is the theory of conflict professed by the late Col. John Boyd.

Col. Boyd was responsible for creating many of the aerial combat tactics now employed throughout the Free World. His findings were the result of projects and studies he conducted about the success American Pilots had over their North Korean adversaries in the Asian unpleasantness of the fifties. Boyd theorized that although the North Korean pilots had certain technical advantages with their airplanes, American pilots could generally see their adversaries first due to the cockpit design of their own airplanes. They could immediately recognize them as “enemies� and decide what to do quicker because of their recognition training as well as their flight training. And the controls on the American airplanes allowed them to put those decisions into play faster than the North Koreans. This allowed them to operate a decision-action cycle that was much faster than their adversaries. Boyd theorized that, in any conflict (whether between nations or between individuals), the party that was able to go through this Observation Orientation Decision Action loop the fastest, had a remarkable advantage over the competition.

We can take this aerial combat concept and apply it very neatly to the realm of personal combat. Studies at Suarez International have determined that, even for a prepared individual, each phase of the OODA cycle takes at least 0.25 of a second. That means that you may have up to one full second to act before the other fellow even realizes what you’re doing. Even then he has to select a viable response to your actions and then employ it.

We tried this concept out with "marking cartridge" firearms. We placed two operators of comparable skill level facing each other at arm's length. Operator Number One (Aggressor) was told to “Command� his opponent to “Put his hands up�, as the thug in the story might do. Operator Number Two (Defender) was instructed that as soon as he thought he could do it, to quickly move into the first portion of a weapon disarm. The Aggressor was told that when he saw the other man move, he should fire. The Aggressor had every advantage. He had the pistol already pointed at the Defender, his finger on the trigger and the hammer was cocked (less than 3 pounds of pressure required to fire). Furthermore, he was familiar with the techniques the Defender would do, as well as the fact that he knew the Defender would not be complying! Talk about bad odds for the defender!! To make it interesting, we added the stress of the loser buying dinner!

The results were very revealing, and supported Boyd's concepts. Out of ten tries, the Defender was able to deflect the muzzle of the pistol and trap it in a single move before the Aggressor was even able to fire. Lesson learned – All things being equal, action will always beat reaction.

If we understand how to take advantage of the dynamics of human reaction time, we can implement our responses and countermeasures before the adversary has even realized what we are doing. This doesn’t require being particularly fast, or even technically proficient. All that is needed is a tactically-correct, pre-conditioned move that is simple to put to use, violent in nature, and technically correct for the situation.

With this in mind, our story could end thus.

You realize he’s holding a chrome-plated revolver in his hand.

“Hey! I said give me your money!�

“Alright Sir, Please don’t shoot me, I’ll give you everything I have�, you reply.

Expecting you to hand him a wad of C-notes fresh from the ATM, the hoodlum’s smirk turns into an expression horror as your left hand sweeps his pistol aside as your other hand smashes wetly into his nose…once…twice…three times! He doesn’t even realize, in his watery eyed, stupor that you’ve taken his stolen handgun out of his hands and followed up with a strike to his temple. His final thoughts are unprintable as he sinks into eternal blackness.

[1TallTXn]

An interesting thought. I'm sure with proper training and quick reactions it could work just fine

[Calabash-kid]

A few years ago I read about a sheriff in Wyoming who shot a deputy to death. During the trial, an expert was called. Part of his testimony had the baliff hold a gun with blanks on him with instructions to fire as soon as the baliff saw him move. The expert proceeded to tell the jury about reaction times. He then pulled a gun and shot the baliff (with blanks) before the baliff could pull the trigger. When asked about the demonstration, the expert stated that most people have maybe a reaction time of .5 to .75 second. He could draw and fire in less than .5 second. He then testified that the sheriff was "a might faster" at around .3 second.

Short story, if you are prepared to act - you can beat someone even if they already have a gun drawn.

Jerry.

[TX Rancher]

I have posted elsewhere that a gun grab may not be the right option since the odds might not be in your favor. I also stated that if you are going to add this to your bag a tricks, you better practice it with a good partner. And I still stand by those statements, even though I probably didn’t explain my reasons well in the original post, so I’ll try to do a little better this time.

Paladin, Austin, and several others have stated they practice these moves, and that’s a good thing. Their chance of success in a real situation is much better then someone who hasn’t practiced, but has read about it on a board/blog somewhere and tries it for the first time in a real life/death situation. And make no mistake about it, regardless of how the situation was, as soon as you go for the gun it became life and death, especially for you.

If you feel you are about to get shot, or that the situation is only going to go down hill and your chances are not going to get any better, then definitely go for the gun and try to deflect it, but don’t get fixated on taking the BG gun, and don’t get fixated on getting your gun into the fray. In regards to him, taking his gun off you is the initial goal, not necessarily getting possession of his gun (although that’s not a bad outcome!).

In regards to your weapon, not all self defense situations are best served by resorting to your concealed firearm. If you are at bad breath distance, a reasonable assumption if you’re going for a grab, drawing will often be the wrong response. Hand to hand may be the better initial response (which is in keeping with the article above). Too often, in an attempt to get our gun in play, we take move back following the mantra “Distance is our friend�, but that may also allow the BG to regain control of his gun, which doesn’t exactly better your odds.

Better to move in closer and rain as much violence on his body as you can. His eyes, nose, throat, solar plexus, family jewels, knees, insteps, shins, and anything else you can hit, kick, ram, or bite is fair game. And here’s the key, don’t quit until you’ve won. Make him back up, make him think distance is his friend, let him keep trying to bring his gun back into the fight instead of raining damage on your body.

As for the grab, notice I did not say it’s never the right answer, only that it may not be the right answer. Only you can answer that question for yourself.

But be honest…after all, your life may depend on it. Like Gabe said, if he just wanted to kill you, he already would have, you probably have a second or two to evaluate the situation. It’s not generally in the BG’s best interest to kill you. Be sure the grab is the best option available to you.

If he’s carrying the gun to intimidate you, and you’ve practiced the move, and you’re both in equivalent shape, I bet you can beat him 99% of the time, and those are good odds.

But look at your physical shape, and be honest. Are you in good form? When’s the last time you worked out, or tested your speed in hand to hand?

Action always beats reaction is a good sound bite, but I suspect it’s also assuming most variables are held equal (that’s certainly true in Gabe’s test above). But what about if you’re in your mid 50’s and haven’t seen your toes in 10 years and a flight of stairs has you huffing and puffing with your heart rate somewhere in the 140-150 range?

Further lets have the BG in his 20’s, in prime shape, and just 1 week before had finished his physical training and advanced combat course in the local federal penitentiary, and had proven himself to be an excellent student.

How do the odds look now? As I said above, if it’s your only option, go for it. At least you’ll die a warrior, which in my book is a noble way to go, and besides, you may get lucky.

Most incidents will fall somewhere between those two scenarios for most of us, and so will the odds of success.

Unless you feel you have to go for it, or that you’re sure you can win, then wait for a better moment…it will come. He reaches for the wallet you’re handing him, or he looks to the side to see if that car is coming his way, or he glances down to make sure it’s your wallet you’re going after. All you need is an opening, and the odds just got a lot better.

Heck, even forcing the opening by the age old trick of looking behind the BG like there’s someone there works most of the time, looking up works too. Dropping your wallet, faking a heart attack, telling him you like his haircut, anything to get inside his OODA loop will help move the odds in your favor.

So my suggestion is get a partner, and if you can, one in better shape then you are. Somebody it will be very hard for you to beat, and practice your moves. Don’t get fixated on bringing your firearm into the fight. There will be a right time to do so, but it probably won’t be immediately.

And practice, practice, and then practice some more. It will be time well spent. Even if you never use it, which I hope is the case, you will be in better shape and your abilities will improve every time you practice. There’s almost no downside to it…

Hopefully this explains my view a little better.

[GlockenHammer]

Gabe exposed me to this in his close range gunfighting course. I did some additional work with a local friend. I firmly belive gun take aways are a viable tool in the right circumstances.