Yes and no. The forum members are a mixed group and, as such, have different beliefs on what they support. I support a complete repeal of all gun laws, federal and state, but I am very confident that very few members of the forum agree with me on that extreme a position. I also do not ever expect to see that happen.
Some on the board may support much broader rights than others. Some support open carry even if they do not do it. Some support full-auto possession, even if they would never do it. Some do not support either of those positions for various reasons, including the possible repercussions hurting their personal carry/possession. Some support assault weapons bans as they do not see the need for them.
The forum welcomes all members who are interested in a polite and reasonable discussion. I would not be surprised to find people who do not support any gun rights on the board if they are polite and wanting to discuss the issue.
I support 2nd Amendments rights. However, I am also a realist.
Some on the board may support much broader rights than others. Some support open carry even if they do not do it. Some support full-auto possession, even if they would never do it. .
I'd support full auto for the short period of time until the Wife saw the ammo bill and provided a free attitude adjustment. Once I made it out of the hospital and long term rehab I'd probably sing a different tune...
nightmare69 wrote:I know I wouldn't want the attention and I seriously doubt I will ever open carry off duty. I'm sure there are some people though that crave the attention and get a rush knowing everyone sees their gun. I know 1 person in particular that OC a rifle when going on walks just cause he can and there is nothing LE can do to stop him plus he loves the attention.
But conflating his neurosis to any but the limited jerks that are getting press is fallacious at first blush. I personally would not care if someone spotted my weapon were it not for the current state of the laws in Texas. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to OC from comfort to needing to rush out the door and unable to dress "properly".
When I was in Virginia last week and had checked in dressed down, I had to step out to get ice. It was nice not to have to dress again just to conceal an OWB carry.
Now tactics, that is a different discussion.
I Thess 5:21
Disclaimer: IANAL, IANYL, IDNPOOTV, IDNSIAHIE and IANROFL
"There is no situation so bad that you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield, NASA ISS Astronaut
jmra wrote:Sorry, but the guy in Walmart with the AR does bother me. Why? Because he is crying out for attention and people who cry out for attention eventually do irrational things. Please don't tell me it has anything to do with 2A enlightenment because it doesn't. There are much better ways to do that than walk thru Walmart causing a scene. This guy is a bomb waiting to go off.
Even if he never goes off, he is doing nothing to help get Real OC passed in Texas and doing everything to get what we do have taken away.
Pardon me if I play the devil’s advocate here.
Change the first line from:
“Sorry, but the guy in Walmart with the AR does bother me.”
to:
“Sorry, but the guy in Walmart with the exposed handgun does bother me.”
You then have the exact same argument that the anti-gun/anti-open carry folks are saying now. I have absolutely no desire to OC but if that’s what you want it should be your right to do so. My only concern is when Suzie soccer mom gets her panties all twisted up and starts screeching to the manager. Right now there isn't a 30.06 sign in this area that I have seen or heard of and I would hate to see that change. Other than that concern I really don’t have a dog in this hunt.
Fred Schroeder
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering, if during their life on earth, they made a difference in the world. But, soldiers don't have that problem.
jmra wrote:Sorry, but the guy in Walmart with the AR does bother me. Why? Because he is crying out for attention and people who cry out for attention eventually do irrational things. Please don't tell me it has anything to do with 2A enlightenment because it doesn't. There are much better ways to do that than walk thru Walmart causing a scene. This guy is a bomb waiting to go off.
Even if he never goes off, he is doing nothing to help get Real OC passed in Texas and doing everything to get what we do have taken away.
Pardon me if I play the devil’s advocate here.
Change the first line from:
“Sorry, but the guy in Walmart with the AR does bother me.”
to:
“Sorry, but the guy in Walmart with the exposed handgun does bother me.”
You then have the exact same argument that the anti-gun/anti-open carry folks are saying now. I have absolutely no desire to OC but if that’s what you want it should be your right to do so. My only concern is when Suzie soccer mom gets her panties all twisted up and starts screeching to the manager. Right now there isn't a 30.06 sign in this area that I have seen or heard of and I would hate to see that change. Other than that concern I really don’t have a dog in this hunt.
Apples and oranges. It is not unheard of at all in Texas to see someone walking around with an exposed handgun and no one freaks out. People either don't know it's illegal or they assume (probably correctly) the person is a police officer. Either way it is a completely different reaction than with someone carrying an AR around.
The other obvious difference is intent. The guy carrying the AR in Walmart is doing so solely to draw attention to himself.
I also speak from experience having lived in a state where OC of handguns and long guns were both legal. People simply don't notice a holstered SA handgun, but carry around an EBR and people freak out and (depending on the place) I don't blame them.
Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.
John Wayne
NRA Lifetime member
Apples and oranges only from the standpoint of it being an EBR as EBR’s do carry a negative connotation in some circles. So make it a Remington 700 or a Mossberg 500. To me a gun is a gun. I can say that I’ve known people that couldn’t care less about a long gun (EBR’s excepted perhaps) that can’t stand the sight of an “evil handgun the only purpose of which is to kill people”. Very strange to my way of thinking but to each his own.
Personally I couldn’t care less what anyone carries or how they carry it up to and including a Ma Duce over their shoulder. But there are those that disagree to the finer points and therein lies the rub.
Fred Schroeder
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering, if during their life on earth, they made a difference in the world. But, soldiers don't have that problem.
Elza wrote:Apples and oranges only from the standpoint of it being an EBR as EBR’s do carry a negative connotation in some circles. So make it a Remington 700 or a Mossberg 500. To me a gun is a gun. I can say that I’ve known people that couldn’t care less about a long gun (EBR’s excepted perhaps) that can’t stand the sight of an “evil handgun the only purpose of which is to kill people”. Very strange to my way of thinking but to each his own.
Personally I couldn’t care less what anyone carries or how they carry it up to and including a Ma Duce over their shoulder. But there are those that disagree to the finer points and therein lies the rub.
I'm not sure what you are trying to say or the point you are trying to make. My point is very simple, legal or not it is not only stupid to carry a long gun into Walmart, it is also detrimental to the cause of advancing gun rights at both the state and federal level.
Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.
John Wayne
NRA Lifetime member
jmra wrote:I'm not sure what you are trying to say or the point you are trying to make. My point is very simple, legal or not it is not only stupid to carry a long gun into Walmart, it is also detrimental to the cause of advancing gun rights at both the state and federal level.
I'm saying everyone has their own opinion. And that’s all they are; opinions.
1. Long guns in public bad, hand guns OK. Your opinion (and many others) and y’all are entitled to it.
2. Any gun in public is OK. My opinion (and many others) and we’re entitled to it.
3. Any gun in public is bad. Some people’s opinion and they’re entitled to it. However, I firmly believe that the 2nd Amendment trumps their opinion.
Fred Schroeder
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering, if during their life on earth, they made a difference in the world. But, soldiers don't have that problem.
jmra wrote:I'm not sure what you are trying to say or the point you are trying to make. My point is very simple, legal or not it is not only stupid to carry a long gun into Walmart, it is also detrimental to the cause of advancing gun rights at both the state and federal level.
I'm saying everyone has their own opinion. And that’s all they are; opinions.
1. Long guns in public bad, hand guns OK. Your opinion (and many others) and y’all are entitled to it.
2. Any gun in public is OK. My opinion (and many others) and we’re entitled to it.
3. Any gun in public is bad. Some people’s opinion and they’re entitled to it. However, I firmly believe that the 2nd Amendment trumps their opinion.
Our opinions don't count for squat. What counts is what is going to get bills passed to advance gun rights in 2015. OC of long guns is detrimental to that cause. This is not opinion, it is fact as stated by those who will be voting on the bills.
Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.
John Wayne
NRA Lifetime member
This is where open carry of long guns into places they do not belong leads. It leads to a confused public as to just what kind of people gun owners are and their grasp on reality. Any citizen would ask what possible purpose could it serve to walk around with a black rifle in businesses except maybe a gun store or hunting lodge in a rural setting. Citizens conclude you would have to be a nut or a danger to others to do it in urban settings. It plays into the hands of gun control advocates and it helps the Democrats. It has already resulted in the loss of freedom to carry. Another business has just said NO to people with guns. But go ahead and trumpet the right to carry long guns anywhere and anytime. People do have that right in the form of free speech (for now). Go ahead and carry them anywhere you legally can no matter how inappropriate (for now). Other people do have the right to say no to having them on their property. When that does not put a stop to this behavior on the sidewalks and at intersections, people will be stimulated to do something about that too. Problem is they also say no to the polite gun owners who prefer not to needlessly offend, anger, and frighten people. I am not a frequent customer of Jack in the Box, but now I will not be a customer at all. If this had been my favorite restaurant, I would be a lot more put out with Open Carry than the business owner. Jack in the Box, like Starbucks, saw it's restaurant made a center point for something that customers do not see in a positive light. They put a stop to that. I doubt it was really just because MDA wanted it. Open carry's behavior played into the hands of the enemy. If you already know what you are doing is being twisted and used to destroy your own stated goal, one has to wonder why you continue doing it.
This wan an educational thread. Now I understand the California Senator with a concealed carry permit is actually pro gun. She has a concealed carry permit, so she's pro gun. She just draws the line on restrictions differently than some other pro gun people. I can rest easy tonight.
Equo ne credite, Teucri. Quidquid id est, timeo Danaos et dona ferentes
The fact that we differentiate a firearm that, having a cartridge inserted, uses a firing pin to strike a primer, igniting a powder in the casing to expel a projectile at high velocity towards an intended target from a firearm that, having a cartridge inserted, uses a firing pin to strike a primer, igniting a powder in the casing to expel a projectile at high velocity towards an intended target, is catering to the prejudices of others who don't like either one.
A man will fight harder for his interests than for his rights.
- Napoleon Bonaparte
PFC Paul E. Ison USMC 1916-2001
ldj1002 wrote:How do some states have OC and it apparently works just fine.
The issue at this point is getting the bill passed, i.e. what helps, what doesn't, and what is counterproductive.
Chas.
Well said. I renew my suggestion that folks contribute to the TSRA PAC so it will have the ammunition to be successful. These tactics are bad but, as we've seen over the last few years, these folks can't be dissuaded. They do what they will. What we can control is our actions and I'm very pleased that TSRA is responding quite affirmatively.
OC folks are losing their fight. Protests on their behalf have already cost the CC folks some places where we could earlier take our families and protect them. while eating or having a cup of coffee. No anymore! There's an old saying about not making enemies when you don't have to.
I don't expect any success on OC in 2015. What I do expect is (with luck) a few modest gain's for the CC crowd, but a move to outlaw OC of long guns in public places. You don't always get what you want, but you usually get what you deserve.
I hope I don't lose any more CC friendly businesses to OC protestors.
DPS Received Forms- 1/18/11 Online Status - 1/27/11 My Mailbox - 2/12/11 NRA Life Member
I support 2nd Amendments rights. However, I am also a realist.
