I saw someone OPEN CARRYING

[SewTexas]

plain clothes? open carry? probably a Ranger....at least that's what I would assume. a Fed would have a jacket on. and a regular LEO would probably be in uniform. could be a detective? but again would probably have a jacket on. Rangers tend to just not care, which I tend to love.

Lots of sheriff's detectives open carry with a badge on the belt. Senior officers in plainclothes often do so as well, as do some officers attending training. I've had lunch in the DFW area with several police chiefs open carrying in a public restaurant.

It's not at all unusual, especially outside the big cities, but many folks don't notice anyway.

I OC at work. My badge is usually next to the gun, but people often fail to see the badge. I had a dude stare me down the other day so hard I almost busted out laughing. His stare was hatred towards LEOs and I guess my getting gas infuriated him. I actually had to get used to this moving to TX because in the Peoples Republic we kept our guns concealed when in plain clothing. Colder weather I wear a coat, but when it's warm it's warm.

I'd bet one could get away with OC wearing a CHL badge and wonder how many do? It's hard to read a badge unless you are closed to it. Of course this would be a violation, but just a thought.

As to mojos post, that sounds like a security guard uniform, and properly licensed they also have the right to get lunch.

come on TJ, cops don't need gas....really

[mojo84]

plain clothes? open carry? probably a Ranger....at least that's what I would assume. a Fed would have a jacket on. and a regular LEO would probably be in uniform. could be a detective? but again would probably have a jacket on. Rangers tend to just not care, which I tend to love.

Lots of sheriff's detectives open carry with a badge on the belt. Senior officers in plainclothes often do so as well, as do some officers attending training. I've had lunch in the DFW area with several police chiefs open carrying in a public restaurant.

It's not at all unusual, especially outside the big cities, but many folks don't notice anyway.

I OC at work. My badge is usually next to the gun, but people often fail to see the badge. I had a dude stare me down the other day so hard I almost busted out laughing. His stare was hatred towards LEOs and I guess my getting gas infuriated him. I actually had to get used to this moving to TX because in the Peoples Republic we kept our guns concealed when in plain clothing. Colder weather I wear a coat, but when it's warm it's warm.

I'd bet one could get away with OC wearing a CHL badge and wonder how many do? It's hard to read a badge unless you are closed to it. Of course this would be a violation, but just a thought.

As to mojos post, that sounds like a security guard uniform, and properly licensed they also have the right to get lunch.

Joker, But are they allowed to wear their guns openly when not at their place they are assigned to work and in the commission of their duties? I thought I read where they were not to wear their guns openly when not at their assigned place or going to or from.

Please advise if I am misinformed. I'm really interested in your basis for making your comment Joker.

By the way Joker, where did I challenge their "right" to eat lunch?

[jbarn]

It was obvious they were not at the place where they were assigned to provide security as they all got up and left when they finished eating.

If they are not peace officers they can do that. Texas softened the language several years ago where stopping for lunch or the like is no longer a violation. However, an armed security officer must have his name displayed on his uniform.

[mojo84]

It was obvious they were not at the place where they were assigned to provide security as they all got up and left when they finished eating.

If they are not peace officers they can do that. Texas softened the language several years ago where stopping for lunch or the like is no longer a violation. However, an armed security officer must have his name displayed on his uniform.

No names, company name, badge or patch. Nothing but security on the back. I'm not aware that it's been softened that much. I also don't believe joker has a sound basis for his comment. One has to look at both the penal and occupational codes for the answer.

If it has been changed, I'd be interested in a cite.

[jbarn]

It was obvious they were not at the place where they were assigned to provide security as they all got up and left when they finished eating.

If they are not peace officers they can do that. Texas softened the language several years ago where stopping for lunch or the like is no longer a violation. However, an armed security officer must have his name displayed on his uniform.

No names, company name, badge or patch. Nothing but security on the back. I'm not aware that it's been softened that much. I also don't believe joker has a sound basis for his comment. One has to look at both the penal and occupational codes for the answer.

If it has been changed, I'd be interested in a cite.

If they were not peace officers and the company name and the person's name was not displayed, then they were in violation of the Occupations Code. However, guards are allowed to get lunch while armed. Law changed years ago.

[mojo84]

It was obvious they were not at the place where they were assigned to provide security as they all got up and left when they finished eating.

If they are not peace officers they can do that. Texas softened the language several years ago where stopping for lunch or the like is no longer a violation. However, an armed security officer must have his name displayed on his uniform.

No names, company name, badge or patch. Nothing but security on the back. I'm not aware that it's been softened that much. I also don't believe joker has a sound basis for his comment. One has to look at both the penal and occupational codes for the answer.

If it has been changed, I'd be interested in a cite.

If they were not peace officers and the company name and the person's name was not displayed, then they were in violation of the Occupations Code. However, guards are allowed to get lunch while armed. Law changed years ago.

I saw the word "directly" was removed from the "to and from work" part of the law. However, did the law change to allow them to go eat at a restaurant or get food on a break from a store or are you and joker referring to what's commonly practiced officer or departmental discretion/courtesy to not bother with them?

[EEllis]

I saw the word "directly" was removed from the "to and from work" part of the law. However, did the law change to allow them to go eat at a restaurant or get food on a break from a store or are you and joker referring to what's commonly practiced officer or departmental discretion/courtesy to not bother with them?

It is actually up to the DA of each county and how they read the law but the DPS, which is now the regulating agency for private security in Texas, says that it is allowed for security officer to make stops before, after, and during their day. So yes they can stop at the store or go eat without removing their firearm if they are commissioned officers. As to their uniform, it can be almost anything but they do need a patch but it can be on their shoulder or chest, they are not required to have a badge, and they must have their name displayed somewhere. Failure to do so is not a crime but a violation which the security officer and the company can both be fined for. It would not however have any effect on the legality of someone carrying a firearm. And there is very little "courtesy " between LEO's and private security. Considering how bad some security officers are that's hardly surprising but if a cop gives a break it's because of the person not because of the job.

[rickhdz36]

plain clothes? open carry? probably a Ranger....at least that's what I would assume. a Fed would have a jacket on. and a regular LEO would probably be in uniform. could be a detective? but again would probably have a jacket on. Rangers tend to just not care, which I tend to love.

Lots of sheriff's detectives open carry with a badge on the belt. Senior officers in plainclothes often do so as well, as do some officers attending training. I've had lunch in the DFW area with several police chiefs open carrying in a public restaurant.

It's not at all unusual, especially outside the big cities, but many folks don't notice anyway.

Well that was definitely one thing I looked for was a badge of some sort or any identification of being a LEO.

Also he had a compact.... which I was also thinking, why wouldn't you carry a full size handgun? That would just be me thinking, since I'm sure most LEO use full size handguns. So seeing a compact was probably why it caught my attention.

[G0C]

Did the restaurant post a 30.06 sign the next day?

[WildBill]

I saw the word "directly" was removed from the "to and from work" part of the law. However, did the law change to allow them to go eat at a restaurant or get food on a break from a store or are you and joker referring to what's commonly practiced officer or departmental discretion/courtesy to not bother with them?

It is actually up to the DA of each county and how they read the law but the DPS, which is now the regulating agency for private security in Texas, says that it is allowed for security officer to make stops before, after, and during their day. So yes they can stop at the store or go eat without removing their firearm if they are commissioned officers. As to their uniform, it can be almost anything but they do need a patch but it can be on their shoulder or chest, they are not required to have a badge, and they must have their name displayed somewhere. Failure to do so is not a crime but a violation which the security officer and the company can both be fined for. It would not however have any effect on the legality of someone carrying a firearm. And there is very little "courtesy " between LEO's and private security. Considering how bad some security officers are that's hardly surprising but if a cop gives a break it's because of the person not because of the job.

That is a good explanation of the regulations. Thank you.

[jbarn]

It was obvious they were not at the place where they were assigned to provide security as they all got up and left when they finished eating.

If they are not peace officers they can do that. Texas softened the language several years ago where stopping for lunch or the like is no longer a violation. However, an armed security officer must have his name displayed on his uniform.

No names, company name, badge or patch. Nothing but security on the back. I'm not aware that it's been softened that much. I also don't believe joker has a sound basis for his comment. One has to look at both the penal and occupational codes for the answer.

If it has been changed, I'd be interested in a cite.

If they were not peace officers and the company name and the person's name was not displayed, then they were in violation of the Occupations Code. However, guards are allowed to get lunch while armed. Law changed years ago.

I saw the word "directly" was removed from the "to and from work" part of the law. However, did the law change to allow them to go eat at a restaurant or get food on a break from a store or are you and joker referring to what's commonly practiced officer or departmental discretion/courtesy to not bother with them?

Let me take this approach; what law would prevent a guard from grabbing lunch while off site but armed?

[mojo84]

It was obvious they were not at the place where they were assigned to provide security as they all got up and left when they finished eating.

If they are not peace officers they can do that. Texas softened the language several years ago where stopping for lunch or the like is no longer a violation. However, an armed security officer must have his name displayed on his uniform.

No names, company name, badge or patch. Nothing but security on the back. I'm not aware that it's been softened that much. I also don't believe joker has a sound basis for his comment. One has to look at both the penal and occupational codes for the answer.

If it has been changed, I'd be interested in a cite.

If they were not peace officers and the company name and the person's name was not displayed, then they were in violation of the Occupations Code. However, guards are allowed to get lunch while armed. Law changed years ago.

I saw the word "directly" was removed from the "to and from work" part of the law. However, did the law change to allow them to go eat at a restaurant or get food on a break from a store or are you and joker referring to what's commonly practiced officer or departmental discretion/courtesy to not bother with them?

Let me take this approach; what law would prevent a guard from grabbing lunch while off site but armed?

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/rsd/psb/do ... eClean.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TEXAS PRIVATE SECURITY ACT
AS AMENDED BY THE 83RD LEGISLATURE, REGULAR SESSION
September 2013

OCC §1702.169. FIREARM RESTRICTIONS.
A commissioned security officer other than a person acting as a personal protection officer may not carry a firearm unless:
(1) the security officer is:
(A) engaged in the performance of duties as a security officer; or
(B) traveling to or from the place of assignment;
(2) the security officer wears a distinctive uniform indicating that the individual is a security officer; and
(3) the firearm is in plain view.
OCC §1702.170. NON-APPLICABILITY OF FIREARM RESTRICTIONS.
Sections 1702.161, 1702.169, and 1702.206 do not apply to the holder of a temporary security officer commission who:
(1) is in uniform;
(2) possesses only one firearm; and
(3) is performing the individual's duties.

From the penal code

Sec. 46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):

(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;

(2) on the premises of a polling place on the day of an election or while early voting is in progress;

(3) on the premises of any government court or offices utilized by the court, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the court;

(4) on the premises of a racetrack;

(5) in or into a secured area of an airport; or

(6) within 1,000 feet of premises the location of which is designated by the Texas Department of Criminal Justice as a place of execution under Article 43.19, Code of Criminal Procedure, on a day that a sentence of death is set to be imposed on the designated premises and the person received notice that:

(A) going within 1,000 feet of the premises with a weapon listed under this subsection was prohibited; or

(B) possessing a weapon listed under this subsection within 1,000 feet of the premises was prohibited.

(b) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsections (a)(1)-(4) that the actor possessed a firearm while in the actual discharge of his official duties as a member of the armed forces or national guard or a guard employed by a penal institution, or an officer of the court.

(c) In this section:

(1) "Premises" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035.

(2) "Secured area" means an area of an airport terminal building to which access is controlled by the inspection of persons and property under federal law.

(d) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(5) that the actor possessed a firearm or club while traveling to or from the actor's place of assignment or in the actual discharge of duties as:

(1) a member of the armed forces or national guard;

(2) a guard employed by a penal institution; or

(3) a security officer commissioned by the Texas Private Security Board if:

(A) the actor is wearing a distinctive uniform; and

(B) the firearm or club is in plain view; or

(4) a security officer who holds a personal protection authorization under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, provided that the officer is either:

(A) wearing the uniform of a security officer, including any uniform or apparel described by Section 1702.323(d), Occupations Code, and carrying the officer's firearm in plain view; or

(B) not wearing the uniform of a security officer and carrying the officer's firearm in a concealed manner.

(e) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(5) that the actor checked all firearms as baggage in accordance with federal or state law or regulations before entering a secured area.

(f) It is not a defense to prosecution under this section that the actor possessed a handgun and was licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.

(g) An offense under this section is a third degree felony.

(h) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(4) that the actor possessed a firearm or club while traveling to or from the actor's place of assignment or in the actual discharge of duties as a security officer commissioned by the Texas Board of Private Investigators and Private Security Agencies, if:

(1) the actor is wearing a distinctive uniform; and

(2) the firearm or club is in plain view.

(i) It is an exception to the application of Subsection (a)(6) that the actor possessed a firearm or club:

(1) while in a vehicle being driven on a public road; or

(2) at the actor's residence or place of employment.

jbarn, The above referenced does not say anything about getting lunch at a restaurant, running to grab drinks or smokes or snacks at a convenience store ect. If I am overlooking it or if there is a change that happened "several years ago" that I am not aware of, please cite your source as I haven't been able to find it.

I asked for you to provide a cite earlier but you didn't so I am just going by what I am actually reading in the Texas Occupations Code for Private Security and the Penal Code. If there is something else, please cite it specifically. Notice the above referenced is from the 83rd Legislature which was in 2013.

I will be happy to accept that I am wrong if you can show me something specific in the law showing it was changed as you stated to say what you, joker and others say. None of which have provided a cite. Therefore, I am taking it as just your opinions or there may be an unwritten understanding cops don't mess with them for unlawfully carrying a firearm.

[mojo84]

I saw the word "directly" was removed from the "to and from work" part of the law. However, did the law change to allow them to go eat at a restaurant or get food on a break from a store or are you and joker referring to what's commonly practiced officer or departmental discretion/courtesy to not bother with them?

It is actually up to the DA of each county and how they read the law but the DPS, which is now the regulating agency for private security in Texas, says that it is allowed for security officer to make stops before, after, and during their day. So yes they can stop at the store or go eat without removing their firearm if they are commissioned officers. As to their uniform, it can be almost anything but they do need a patch but it can be on their shoulder or chest, they are not required to have a badge, and they must have their name displayed somewhere. Failure to do so is not a crime but a violation which the security officer and the company can both be fined for. It would not however have any effect on the legality of someone carrying a firearm. And there is very little "courtesy " between LEO's and private security. Considering how bad some security officers are that's hardly surprising but if a cop gives a break it's because of the person not because of the job.

That is a good explanation of the regulations. Thank you.

Yeah, but it is opinion unless he provides something to back up his statements. This "up to the DA to interpret the law" stuff is too ambiguous. I am contending it is against the law for them to carry when they are open carrying contrary to what the penal code and Texas Occupation Code states. I am not contending whether or not a DA will chose to indict or not.

Isn't it ALWAYS "before, after and during their day"?

[jbarn]

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/rsd/psb/do ... eClean.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TEXAS PRIVATE SECURITY ACT
AS AMENDED BY THE 83RD LEGISLATURE, REGULAR SESSION
September 2013

OCC §1702.169. FIREARM RESTRICTIONS.
A commissioned security officer other than a person acting as a personal protection officer may not carry a firearm unless:
(1) the security officer is:
(A) engaged in the performance of duties as a security officer; or
(B) traveling to or from the place of assignment;
(2) the security officer wears a distinctive uniform indicating that the individual is a security officer; and
(3) the firearm is in plain view.
OCC §1702.170. NON-APPLICABILITY OF FIREARM RESTRICTIONS.
Sections 1702.161, 1702.169, and 1702.206 do not apply to the holder of a temporary security officer commission who:
(1) is in uniform;
(2) possesses only one firearm; and
(3) is performing the individual's duties.

Notice it includes an exception for to or from place of assignment. He leaves his place of assignment and stops for lunch, then goes back to his place of assignment, Legal. Perfectly. This law changed back in 07, and there were many discussions.

From the penal code

Sec. 46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):

(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;

(2) on the premises of a polling place on the day of an election or while early voting is in progress;

(3) on the premises of any government court or offices utilized by the court, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the court;

(4) on the premises of a racetrack;

(5) in or into a secured area of an airport; or

(6) within 1,000 feet of premises the location of which is designated by the Texas Department of Criminal Justice as a place of execution under Article 43.19, Code of Criminal Procedure, on a day that a sentence of death is set to be imposed on the designated premises and the person received notice that:

(A) going within 1,000 feet of the premises with a weapon listed under this subsection was prohibited; or

(B) possessing a weapon listed under this subsection within 1,000 feet of the premises was prohibited.

(b) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsections (a)(1)-(4) that the actor possessed a firearm while in the actual discharge of his official duties as a member of the armed forces or national guard or a guard employed by a penal institution, or an officer of the court.

(c) In this section:

(1) "Premises" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035.

(2) "Secured area" means an area of an airport terminal building to which access is controlled by the inspection of persons and property under federal law.

(d) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(5) that the actor possessed a firearm or club while traveling to or from the actor's place of assignment or in the actual discharge of duties as:

(1) a member of the armed forces or national guard;

(2) a guard employed by a penal institution; or

(3) a security officer commissioned by the Texas Private Security Board if:

(A) the actor is wearing a distinctive uniform; and

(B) the firearm or club is in plain view; or

(4) a security officer who holds a personal protection authorization under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, provided that the officer is either:

(A) wearing the uniform of a security officer, including any uniform or apparel described by Section 1702.323(d), Occupations Code, and carrying the officer's firearm in plain view; or

(B) not wearing the uniform of a security officer and carrying the officer's firearm in a concealed manner.

(e) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(5) that the actor checked all firearms as baggage in accordance with federal or state law or regulations before entering a secured area.

(f) It is not a defense to prosecution under this section that the actor possessed a handgun and was licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.

(g) An offense under this section is a third degree felony.

(h) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(4) that the actor possessed a firearm or club while traveling to or from the actor's place of assignment or in the actual discharge of duties as a security officer commissioned by the Texas Board of Private Investigators and Private Security Agencies, if:

(1) the actor is wearing a distinctive uniform; and

(2) the firearm or club is in plain view.

(i) It is an exception to the application of Subsection (a)(6) that the actor possessed a firearm or club:

(1) while in a vehicle being driven on a public road; or

(2) at the actor's residence or place of employment.

jbarn, The above referenced does not say anything about getting lunch at a restaurant, running to grab drinks or smokes or snacks at a convenience store ect. If I am overlooking it or if there is a change that happened "several years ago" that I am not aware of, please cite your source as I haven't been able to find it.

The section quoted above is specific about what places a firearm cannot be carried. McDonalds is not on that list. 46.03 does not prevent guards from carrying at lunch, and does not address lunch breaks at all.

It DOES tell you that a guard can carry on duty in or into the secured area of an airport, and he can carry at a racetrack if on duty. Again, 46.03 names specific places that people cannot carry. It has nothing to do with guards taking lunch, unless they try to take lunch at a place listed in 46.03.

I asked for you to provide a cite earlier but you didn't so I am just going by what I am actually reading in the Texas Occupations Code for Private Security and the Penal Code. If there is something else, please cite it specifically. Notice the above referenced is from the 83rd Legislature which was in 2013.

Laws do not generally tell us what is allowed, they tell us what is not allowed. For example, can you show me the law that allows you to walk on the sidewalk while barefoot?

I will be happy to accept that I am wrong if you can show me something specific in the law showing it was changed as you stated to say what you, joker and others say. None of which have provided a cite. Therefore, I am taking it as just your opinions or there may be an unwritten understanding cops don't mess with them for unlawfully carrying a firearm.

There is no law preventing it; therefore, it is lawful. Nothing you cited prevents it.

[mojo84]

1702.169 spells out when and where they can carry specifically. Otherwise, it is illegal to openly carry a handgun unless a commissioned leo.

How about you cite the law change you mentioned or something that backs up your opinion.