Would you search for a shooter?

[Oldgringo]

jmra wrote:
I don't think people know what a batman license is. Protecting a third party (running to gunfire in order to protect an innocent) is not a Batman license activity. Driving around looking for opportunities to use your gun against a criminal is.

There could be a fine and possibly very expensive line separating the two concepts. I think I'd probably let the people who get paid to do that sort of thing do it without my assistance. Now then, if the gunfire was directed at me or mine, game on!

On a side note, this morning in church, there were three of us saying our howdies before service and all three of us were packing.

[pancho]

It sounds like we grew up on different Batman stories. Carry on.

Yes it does. Along with a different sense of what it means to be a community. Carry on.

What do you gentlemen consider community? What do you think community members owe each other?

To me, community is more than geography. To me, community requires shared values and mutual respect. Shopping in the same mall doesn't make some stranger part of my community.

[Oldgringo]

It sounds like we grew up on different Batman stories. Carry on.

Yes it does. Along with a different sense of what it means to be a community. Carry on.

What do you gentlemen consider community? What do you think community members owe each other?

To me, community is more than geography. To me, community requires shared values and mutual respect. Shopping in the same mall doesn't make some stranger part of my community.

Well said, pancho! I'd never thought of it in those terms but now that I have, .

[jmra]

It sounds like we grew up on different Batman stories. Carry on.

Yes it does. Along with a different sense of what it means to be a community. Carry on.

What do you gentlemen consider community? What do you think community members owe each other?

To me, community is more than geography. To me, community requires shared values and mutual respect. Shopping in the same mall doesn't make some stranger part of my community.

Well said, pancho! I'd never thought of it in those terms but now that I have, .

When I think of community I think of the man left beaten on the side of the road and how many walked passed him until the Good Samaritan stopped and gave him assistance. The Good Samaritan understood compassion and a sense of responsibility to his fellow man. He understood that his community stretched further than his next door neighbor. But it would appear that sense of community is about as common now as it was then.

[ShootDontTalk]

I have seen and dealt first hand with "survivors syndrome" for many years. The worst cases I have ever seen involved those who had the opportunity to help and did not. The psychological damage is frequently, in their own words, worse than death itself. I would agree that charging into the middle of a two-sided gunfight might indicate a lack of reason and result in a disaster. However the scenario I am speaking of is usually more clear cut. Watching helpless and defenseless people being slaughtered in front of you is a psychological brutality that many would rather not survive.

There are things worse than losing your money, home - even losing your own life or family. Doing absolutely nothing when such a situation presents almost always results in that condition. I have stood with Vietnam vets who have been traumatized with "survivors syndrome" and they, almost to a man, describe recurring nightmares forty years post event that make life almost unbearable. One described the experience as like "losing your soul."

So, I understand the reasoning for being a good witness. I also understand that if you only do that, you should be clear that there might be consequences more severe than you imagine. I wish we could think more of Flight 93 and less of Batman. As always, my opinions.

[Dreamer42]

As a teacher, my job is to protect the students in my classroom, or grab those in the hall and get them into a secured classroom ASAP. If something were to happen, and I go "looking" for the shooter, and harm comes to the very students I am supposed to be protecting, I'm sure I would be sued and spend some time in court. No. I stay where I am and guard mine.

- Jay Reid
Princeton ISD

[74novaman]

This is an article written by Evan Marshall I give a copy of it to each CHL student I teach. It should be required reading for every gun owner.

http://www.stoppingpower.net/commentary ... ention.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What a fantastic article. I've read it before and regretted not bookmarking it. Fixed that problem now.

My answer to this kind of hypothetical is very similar to the thinking many other posters have expressed here. I don't know what I'd do for sure, because I've never been in an active shooter situation.

What I THINK I would do depends entirely on the following factors, ranked by importance:

1) Is family with me?
2) What am I carrying?
3) Do I see the shooter? Do I know what's going on?

If I have family with me, we're locating the nearest exit away from gunfire and getting the heck out. Period. They are my first responsibility. If I'm being lazy that day and carrying a 5 shot revolver, I'll be encouraging others in my area to follow me and head towards the nearest exit. If I can see the shooter, am not with family and am carrying a firearm I'd be comfortable taking to a gun fight, I might try to engage if I was certain I was dealing with a psycho murdering people and not a plain clothes officer engaging a criminal. It's another thing to keep in mind: Just because you hear shots doesn't mean you're dealing with the next mass shooter and you need to shoot on sight. If you're not sure what the situation is, you shouldn't be engaging.

Best quote from that article, IMO:

would you be willing to jeopardize everything you own and your family’s security for a total stranger? Would you be willing to lose your home, your cars, and your retirement to play Knight of the Round Table?

For me, the answer is no. My responsibility is to my family. Can't take care of my responsibilities if I'm dead or in jail, or if my assets get seized because I didn't correctly identify targets and the situation. Every law abiding citizen in Texas has the same chance I do to make the ability to protect themselves a priority by obtaining a CHL and training. I don't see why I should harm my family to make up for someone else's unwillingness to take care of their business.

I won't criticize others for making a different decision, but my family is more important to me than strangers. Sorry.

[stroo]

I would like to think that I would run to the sound of the guns if the sound was coming from my church, my son's school or if I could see the shooter as well as hear them.

Otherwise I would like to think that I would run for cover or out of the area.

As others have said though, I have no idea what I really would do and won't unless it happens.

[Ameer]

I plan to get the truck out of Dodge. With my looks, I'm worried cops will assume I'm the active shooter.

[tobasco]

It's true there are many variables and complications both during, and after (such as lawsuits). If I were to narrow the hypothetical a bit more to say that it was clear there was an active shooter attacking innocents (and not just a shootout between bad guys) then I would like to think I would try to find him. But I'm a single guy with no dependents. I would not blame a family man or woman for getting out of harms way. You have to think of your role as breadwinner and parent.

[Chris]

I plan to get the truck out of Dodge. With my looks, I'm worried cops will assume I'm the active shooter.

What you can do is call 911, leave the open line, and narrate your actions. It's all recorded, and the information will be relayed directly to the responding officers. The more information you are able to provide, the more effective their response will be. People simply call because they hear shots while running away. Most callers are panicky and aren't level headed enough to take a quick survey of the situation and relay vital information. 911 call takers have to sift through these calls to find the one caller with valuable information. Whether you engage or not, you have the ability to at least take up a defensive position that would allow you to play an important communication role in resolving the incident rapidly. You become the eyes and ears of the police without the risk of leading the charge. If you end up actively engaging a shooter with this open 911 line, the cavalry will come directly to you to reign down fire and brimstone.

Ultimately, there is no right or wrong answer to a response If YOU come out alive, then you made the right decision.

[bayouhazard]

It sounds like we grew up on different Batman stories. Carry on.

Yes it does. Along with a different sense of what it means to be a community. Carry on.

What do you gentlemen consider community? What do you think community members owe each other?

To me, community is more than geography. To me, community requires shared values and mutual respect. Shopping in the same mall doesn't make some stranger part of my community.

Well said, pancho! I'd never thought of it in those terms but now that I have, .

An interesting perspective. My community believes my right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. So when I am in a society that requires a license to carry, I have no duty to defend members of that society from what they have wrought with their gun controls and other anti-constitutional rules.

[ELB]

These are both excellent posts:

Well, I've kept my mouth shut for the first 30+ posts for one simple reason. As has been previously noted, once does not know whether he will run towards gunfire or away from it until one actually faces it. I've never been in that situation, so I truly do not know how I would react.

But there is one thought nagging at me. When Columbine happened, there was tremendous criticism because the police arrived, set up a perimeter, and did not act right away. Meanwhile, children were killed. Now, the "best practices" within law enforcement procedure for "active shooter" situations is to respond immediately because time lost means more dead bodies. Well, the data that has led law enforcement to conclude that immediate response -- even by one or two people -- has a high probability of saving lives would also apply to a citizen on the spot responding immediately. The old cliche, "when seconds matter, the police are only minutes away" became a cliche because has a high degree of truth. Just think "Luby's Cafeteria".

I am probably in the last 25% of my life span. My children are raised. I am a Christian, so I have faith in what awaits me. If found myself in a situation where I truly believed that my immediate action could make the difference between additional innocents being killed or saved, I would hope that I would take action to prevent murders, even at the risk of my own life. I could be at peace with injury or death for doing the "right thing", whereas I suspect turning and running would be a choice that would haunt my conscience.

Please understand my most sincere hope is that I die of old age and can joke with my wife that, "jeez, I really wasted my time carrying a gun all those years." I have zero desire to be a rambo or batman. But if life places a choice in front of me, I hope that my response is one I can be at peace with.

I have seen and dealt first hand with "survivors syndrome" for many years. The worst cases I have ever seen involved those who had the opportunity to help and did not. The psychological damage is frequently, in their own words, worse than death itself. I would agree that charging into the middle of a two-sided gunfight might indicate a lack of reason and result in a disaster. However the scenario I am speaking of is usually more clear cut. Watching helpless and defenseless people being slaughtered in front of you is a psychological brutality that many would rather not survive.

There are things worse than losing your money, home - even losing your own life or family. Doing absolutely nothing when such a situation presents almost always results in that condition. I have stood with Vietnam vets who have been traumatized with "survivors syndrome" and they, almost to a man, describe recurring nightmares forty years post event that make life almost unbearable. One described the experience as like "losing your soul."

So, I understand the reasoning for being a good witness. I also understand that if you only do that, you should be clear that there might be consequences more severe than you imagine. I wish we could think more of Flight 93 and less of Batman. As always, my opinions.

[texanjoker]

I would like to think that I would run to the sound of the guns if the sound was coming from my church, my son's school or if I could see the shooter as well as hear them.

Otherwise I would like to think that I would run for cover or out of the area.

As others have said though, I have no idea what I really would do and won't unless it happens.

That part is very true, and even a trained leo doesn't know what they will do until they have done it. Granted they receive more role play training, but running to a threat is one thing and actually pulling the trigger on a human is another. Something nobody wants to do.

[rotor]

It seems that this has all been discussed before. I am not the police. I am not a hero. I carry for my defense and family defense. Same thing about jumping into a river to save someone drowning. I can barely swim and would therefore probably drown in such an attempt. My family would miss me and nobody else would care. I would jump in for family though.
So the answer is no about going after a shooter.