New RIP Ammo

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Excaliber
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Re: New RIP Ammo

#31

Post by Excaliber »

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Jumping Frog wrote:I've never seen so much excitement about a new bullet based on a single cheesy video. :roll:

Visualize a DA playing that video and holding that bullet up in front of a jury. I don't want to defend that!

I'd rather defend tried and true ammo used by police departments all over the country. "I used that round because I believed the people making police purchasing decisions know a heck of a lot more than I do about ammo".
They couldn't have chosen a worse name for this cartridge!

Chas.
There was some competition, but DRT was already taken. :lol:
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jimlongley
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Re: New RIP Ammo

#32

Post by jimlongley »

I wonder how long it will take the NEJM to issue a study about how many surgeons have been injured by shards of this ammo while attempting to save gangbangers' lives in the ER, and the AMA to denounce it as "Shoot to Kill Ammo" instead of shoot to wound.

Memories of Black Talons abide.

But if it really works as advertised, I want some in .45ACP for me, in .380ACP for my wife, and of course 12 gauge for the house. :evil2:
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Keith B
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Re: New RIP Ammo

#33

Post by Keith B »

ELB wrote:When I invent my new super-duper killer round, I am going to name it "Marshmallow," and the box is going to come with nice friendly bunnies on it. Let the DA waive that around in the courtroom and talk about how I shot somebody with 17 Marshmallows...
One of the worst aftermaths from shooting I ever saw was from a gang fight with marshmallow guns. This was after a church youth choir lock-in party and the carpets were covered in smashed marshmallows. It was a horrible mess to clean up. Hopefully if someone gets hit with one of your rounds they don't ask me to testify on how much destruction they can do. :lol:
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RogueUSMC
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Re: New RIP Ammo

#34

Post by RogueUSMC »

I will reserve judgment until someone other than the guys selling the stuff do a legit evaluation...
A man will fight harder for his interests than for his rights.
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tobasco
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Re: New RIP Ammo

#35

Post by tobasco »

Jumping Frog wrote:I've never seen so much excitement about a new bullet based on a single cheesy video. :roll:

Visualize a DA playing that video and holding that bullet up in front of a jury. I don't want to defend that!

I'd rather defend tried and true ammo used by police departments all over the country. "I used that round because I believed the people making police purchasing decisions know a heck of a lot more than I do about ammo".
I see your point about it being a good legal defense but practically speaking, using ammo or guns just because the police use them is not a great strategy. For years many departments used .38 specials with crappy ammo. Massad Ayoob has an informative article on the subject here http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob93.html.

Plus you get politics involved like in NY where they have the 11 pound trigger on their glocks to make it "safer". Never mind that a hard trigger pull kills accuracy.
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Excaliber
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Re: New RIP Ammo

#36

Post by Excaliber »

tobasco wrote:
Jumping Frog wrote:I've never seen so much excitement about a new bullet based on a single cheesy video. :roll:

Visualize a DA playing that video and holding that bullet up in front of a jury. I don't want to defend that!

I'd rather defend tried and true ammo used by police departments all over the country. "I used that round because I believed the people making police purchasing decisions know a heck of a lot more than I do about ammo".
I see your point about it being a good legal defense but practically speaking, using ammo or guns just because the police use them is not a great strategy. For years many departments used .38 specials with crappy ammo. Massad Ayoob has an informative article on the subject here http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob93.html.

Plus you get politics involved like in NY where they have the 11 pound trigger on their glocks to make it "safer". Never mind that a hard trigger pull kills accuracy.
Point taken, but... using ammo that both meets objective high performance criteria that satisfies a knowledgeable user and is widely used by police is a winning approach, both tactically and legally.

It has the added advantage of ongoing, street realistic performance testing during use in actual defensive encounters.
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Jumping Frog
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Re: New RIP Ammo

#37

Post by Jumping Frog »

tobasco wrote:I see your point about it being a good legal defense but practically speaking, using ammo or guns just because the police use them is not a great strategy.
No, I am talking about mainstream self defense ammo like Speer Gold Dots, Federal HST, or Winchester Ranger as brand names, as they dominate the police market. I am not talking about New York triggers or .38 SP. :roll:
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03Lightningrocks
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Re: New RIP Ammo

#38

Post by 03Lightningrocks »

That is about I would have expected Andy. Thanks for the video.
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WildBill
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Re: New RIP Ammo

#39

Post by WildBill »

03Lightningrocks wrote:That is about I would have expected Andy. Thanks for the video.
:thumbs2: AndyC has convinced me to switch to carry my .22LR pistol. :hurry:
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Re: New RIP Ammo

#40

Post by remington79 »

Where I used to work they weren't impressed with the performance of HydraShoks so they did some testing and went with HSTs. They did the same thing when they switched service pistols. In addition to range staff they took the people who qualified the best and those that had trouble qualifying to try the pistols.

Now in addition to the video that was posted here is a link to an article about it. They guy was able to get the rounds to jam on a Glock 19.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/0 ... phase-one/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Excaliber
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Re: New RIP Ammo

#41

Post by Excaliber »

I was recently asked to serve as a subject matter expert for an interview by a major magazine on the G2 bullet.

I declined because the only information I had found to that point was what looked to me like overly dramatized hype from the manufacturer that was not informative about the ammunition's performance against standardized tests that would allow the formation of a valid opinion.

I'm not surprised at how the tests cited here turned out.
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Excaliber
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Re: New RIP Ammo

#42

Post by Excaliber »

AndyC wrote:Like I said earlier - friends don't let friends carry pre-fragmented rubbish.
I learned that lesson when I saw the results of a police shooting of a felon in a vehicle with Glaser ammo.

The officer who the BG was trying to run down got off 5 shots using the most definitely unauthorized ammunition. Two hit the windshield, one hit the passenger door just below the window, one hit the passenger window, and one hit the trunk.

The hits on the door and trunk made impressive holes in the outer sheet metal - and did not penetrate the inner sheet metal at all.

The two rounds that hit the windshield made marks but didn't penetrate the polymer inner layer.

The round that hit the passenger window was the only one that made it into the passenger compartment. Had the officer been using standard duty ammo, this would have been a fight stopper for sure. However, the Glaser slug broke up on the glass and showered the BG with pepper flake size shot. He kept driving.

When he was stopped and arrested, he looked like he had the measles on one side of his face, but was otherwise none the worse for wear.

The fact is that there's no way to get the deep penetration and large wound channel of a big, heavy slug when you start out with a light projectile that's designed to shed a lot of its mass as soon as it hits something. Expanding hollowpoints go deep enough to reach vital organs relatively reliably and, when they do expand, create more significant wound channels.

Whenever I'm asked about the latest prefrag miracle bullet, I tell folks I'll stick with my proven hollowpoints, thank you very much.
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03Lightningrocks
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Re: New RIP Ammo

#43

Post by 03Lightningrocks »

I am no expert on ammo so I figured I would ask. I had thought one of the original purposes of fragmentation ammo was to help alleviate the concern of a bullet going through a wall or even a BG and striking an innocent bystander.

It appears they are now trying to market it as some kind of "exploding" bullet.
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