Cities improperly posting 30.06 signs?

[BAW1967]

Went to get my fingerprints done today at MorphotrustUSA and saw an improper 30.06 sign. Sign height was probably 12" in total height in both English and Spanish. They also had a gun buster sign as well. SMH

[kg5ie]

Please post the details of any city or other governmental entity or agency that is posting 30.06 signs where they are not warranted by Texas statute. I am particularly interested in the posting of a 30.06 sign where only a portion of a building is being used for an activity that is statutorily off-limits to CHL's. For example, some cities are putting a court clerk's office in city hall and declaring the entire building off-limits. At least one city has posted its library with 30.06 signs, solely because one of its schools occasionally has class field days there on "library days."

Thanks,
Chas.

Fort Worth Stock Show - Rodeo

Posted at each entrance for entire grounds. Facility is city owned. Rodeo (Professional Sporting Event) is in the arena. Midway (possible amusement park) area is a possible issue. However, cattle, sheep, and swine barns plus the exhibits hall area where vendors display tractors, boots, etc. should be carry areas.

[RogueUSMC]

Amusement parks are not statutorily restricted...

[cmtexas]

Amusement parks are not statutorily restricted...

I stand corrected, and withdraw my previous diarrhea of the mouth.

CM

[Pawpaw]

Amusement parks are not statutorily restricted...

How do you figure?

PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER.


(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:

(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;
(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used in the event;
(3) on the premises of a correctional facility;
(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate;
(5) in an amusement park; or(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.

Keep reading down to subparagraph (i):

(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

[sjfcontrol]

Amusement parks are not statutorily restricted...

How do you figure?

PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER.


(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:

(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;
(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used in the event;
(3) on the premises of a correctional facility;
(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate;
(5) in an amusement park; or(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.

(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

[A-R]

Amusement parks are not statutorily restricted...

How do you figure?

PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER.


(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:

(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;
(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used in the event;
(3) on the premises of a correctional facility;
(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate;
(5) in an amusement park; or(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.

KEEP READING ...

(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.
(c) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a governmental entity.
(d) A license holder commits an offense if, while intoxicated, the license holder carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed.
(e) A license holder who is licensed as a security officer under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, and employed as a security officer commits an offense if, while in the course and scope of the security officer's employment, the security officer violates a provision of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
(f) In this section:
(1) "Amusement park" means a permanent indoor or outdoor facility or park where amusement rides are available for use by the public that is located in a county with a population of more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface area, is enclosed with access only through controlled entries, is open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
(2) "License holder" means a person licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
(g) An offense under Subsection (a), (b), (c), (d), or (e) is a Class A misdemeanor, unless the offense is committed under Subsection (b)(1) or (b)(3), in which event the offense is a felony of the third degree.
(h) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a) that the actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, displayed the handgun under circumstances in which the actor would have been justified in the use of deadly force under Chapter 9.

Text of subsection as added by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 1214, Sec. 2


(h-1) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsections (b) and (c) that the actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, was:
(1) an active judicial officer, as defined by Section 411.201, Government Code; or
(2) a bailiff designated by the active judicial officer and engaged in escorting the officer.

Text of subsection as added by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 1222, Sec. 5


(h-1) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsections (b)(1), (2), and (4)-(6), and (c) that at the time of the commission of the offense, the actor was:
(1) a judge or justice of a federal court;
(2) an active judicial officer, as defined by Section 411.201, Government Code; or
(3) a district attorney, assistant district attorney, criminal district attorney, assistant criminal district attorney, county attorney, or assistant county attorney.

(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

(j) Subsections (a) and (b)(1) do not apply to a historical reenactment performed in compliance with the rules of the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission.
(k) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (b)(1) that the actor was not given effective notice under Section 411.204, Government Code.

Added by Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 229, Sec. 4, eff. Sept. 1, 1995. Amended by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 10.04, eff. Sept. 1, 1997; Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1261, Sec. 26, 27, eff. Sept. 1, 1997; Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 1420, Sec. 14.833, eff. Sept. 1, 2001.
Amended by:
Acts 2005, 79th Leg., Ch. 976, Sec. 3, eff. September 1, 2005.
Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 1214, Sec. 2, eff. June 15, 2007.
Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 1222, Sec. 5, eff. June 15, 2007.
Acts 2009, 81st Leg., R.S., Ch. 687, Sec. 1, eff. September 1, 2009.

[cmtexas]

I stand corrected. Sorry everyone!

I will read more thoroughly

CM

[Pawpaw]

I stand corrected. Sorry everyone!

I will read more thoroughly

CM

There is nothing to be sorry about. Stuff like this is one of the things this forum is all about.

Rule 1: Don't sweat the small stuff.
Rule 2: It's all small stuff.

[Tic Tac]

Improperly posted 30.06 signs? How about every city or county convention center that SAXET rents?

[Keith B]

Improperly posted 30.06 signs? How about every city or county convention center that SAXET rents?

Those are SAXET's signs, not the city's. If you want to be a test case and can afford it, then go ahead and carry past them.

[Tic Tac]

Six of one. Half dozen of the other. The sign is posted on government property. It's not different in any meaningful way from a city or county library posting their doors, and having cops there to enforce the signs.

[jbarn]

Improperly posted 30.06 signs? How about every city or county convention center that SAXET rents?

Those are SAXET's signs, not the city's. If you want to be a test case and can afford it, then go ahead and carry past them.

Keith, doesn't 30.06 ( I don't have it in front of me) make locations owned or leased by a government entity not applicable to 30.06? To my reasoning, if the location is owned by a government entity it matters not who temporarily rents the space. I have kept an eye out for any case law regarding this, but have not found any. Is there something I am missing?

And on a second note regarding guns shows, I recently had a conversation with another instructor and this was the main idea;

Why do I need a CHL to carry a handgun? Because Penal Code (PC) 46.02 makes it unlawful to carry a handgun unless on my premises, premises under my control, motor vehicle or watercraft. Do I need a CHL to carry a handgun on or about my person at a gun show? Clearly not. People carry all sorts of handguns at gun shows. I suspect due to PC 46.15 (b) (3) (lawful sporting event) or the case law regarding gun stores, etc.

Regardless, no CHL is required to carry at a gun show. A person carrying a handgun at a gun show is not carrying under the authority of a CHL. None is required. Therefore, 30.06 does not apply.

My initial reaction to that was it must be wrong. Try that and see what happens. But once I sat back and thought about it, I realized he is right. Isn't he?


I am interested in others thoughts on this, other than the rhetoric of "let me know how that works out for you". I am looking for the actual legalities.

TIA

[Keith B]

Improperly posted 30.06 signs? How about every city or county convention center that SAXET rents?

Those are SAXET's signs, not the city's. If you want to be a test case and can afford it, then go ahead and carry past them.

Keith, doesn't 30.06 ( I don't have it in front of me) make locations owned or leased by a government entity not applicable to 30.06? To my reasoning, if the location is owned by a government entity it matters not who temporarily rents the space. I have kept an eye out for any case law regarding this, but have not found any. Is there something I am missing?

And on a second note regarding guns shows, I recently had a conversation with another instructor and this was the main idea;

Why do I need a CHL to carry a handgun? Because Penal Code (PC) 46.02 makes it unlawful to carry a handgun unless on my premises, premises under my control, motor vehicle or watercraft. Do I need a CHL to carry a handgun on or about my person at a gun show? Clearly not. People carry all sorts of handguns at gun shows. I suspect due to PC 46.15 (b) (3) (lawful sporting event) or the case law regarding gun stores, etc.

Regardless, no CHL is required to carry at a gun show. A person carrying a handgun at a gun show is not carrying under the authority of a CHL. None is required. Therefore, 30.06 does not apply.

My initial reaction to that was it must be wrong. Try that and see what happens. But once I sat back and thought about it, I realized he is right. Isn't he?


I am interested in others thoughts on this, other than the rhetoric of "let me know how that works out for you". I am looking for the actual legalities.

TIA

I do not disagree that a 30.06 posted at a gun show in a government building is not valid. However, there is a good chance you would have to be the test case if you are discovered.

As for a CHL to carry concealed at the gun show, if 46.15 is used as the exception for carry in a gun show, then you would be correct. However, it is another area that has no case law, so you may again become the test case if you concealed carry pass the 30.06 sign and get called on it.

[jbarn]

As for a CHL to carry concealed at the gun show, if 46.15 is used as the exception for carry in a gun show, then you would be correct. However, it is another area that has no case law, so you may again become the test case if you concealed carry pass the 30.06 sign and get called on it.

There has to be some exception though, right? Sort of like for gun stores?

I saw some case law about gun stores once, I'll have to see if I can find it.