Off duty request for ID

[Skaven]

Ok, I am curious if it is required for me to produce identification upon request of an off-duty LEO who is working as a security guard.

To clarify, there was a misunderstanding, and an off duty LEO (had shoulder patches ID'ing his department, no badge on, open carry) instructed me to produce identification so he could check for wants/warrants. I didn't really want to make a scene, and honestly I don't want to be a jerk to a LEO who is just trying to be safe. I produced without any sort of resistance because I wasn't sure and honestly did not want the guy to have a negative connotation with me as the confusion was sorted out. Also, I was not carrying at the time, so I didn't produce my CHL. 5 minutes of conversation later we are all on our way with no problems.

As far as the interaction with the LEO, he was very professional, polite, and respectful, so I want to make sure he gets praise for that.

[CHLLady]

If he's acting as a security guard capacity, it seems over the call of his job duties. Where were you entering?

[Skaven]

I was sitting in my car on the cell phone outside of a business. I had gone in to speak with the supervisor about an issue I had, the supervisor flew off the handle and threw me out of the store. I left the building immediately, but sat in my car outside on the phone talking to their corporate office to file a complaint. The parking lot was public and not owned by the business.

[jmra]

Did he suspect you were involved in criminal activity? Seems like that is the first question most of the open carry guys ask when an officer wants to see ID. I would more than likely give an officer my ID wether I had to or not because ultimately he can find out who I am anyway.

[Skaven]

Her reason for throwing me out was because I was yelling. I recorded the whole interaction, and I never raised my voice once.

[Skaven]

Did he suspect you were involved in criminal activity? Seems like that is the first question most of the open carry guys ask when an officer wants to see ID. I would more than likely give an officer my ID wether I had to or not because ultimately he can find out who I am anyway.

I am sure that the lady who called him said I was up to no good. But she embellished quite a bit based on his explanation of what she said I did.

[cb1000rider]

I *think* that the legal issue is one of authority and jurisdiction. The authority runs 24/7/365 within the jurisdiction.
There are only two sub-questions that I can think of that might make a difference:
1) Departmental policy.
2) Context around when can an officer demand ID. If you were in a private venue, the management could simply require it if you were wanting to stay. If the "misunderstanding" is of possible criminal nature, then you might have been party to an investigation, in which case the LEO can demand ID.

[jmra]

Did he suspect you were involved in criminal activity? Seems like that is the first question most of the open carry guys ask when an officer wants to see ID. I would more than likely give an officer my ID wether I had to or not because ultimately he can find out who I am anyway.

I am sure that the lady who called him said I was up to no good. But she embellished quite a bit based on his explanation of what she said I did.

I'd say refusing to show ID just escalates the situation and lends credibility in the eyes of the officer to her story. Showing him that you were a rational law abiding citizen does just the opposite.
Did he ask you to leave the area? Or did he say thanks, have a nice day?

[Skaven]

I *think* that the legal issue is one of authority and jurisdiction. The authority runs 24/7/365 within the jurisdiction.
There are only two sub-questions that I can think of that might make a difference:
1) Departmental policy.
2) Context around when can an officer demand ID. If you were in a private venue, the management could simply require it if you were wanting to stay. If the "misunderstanding" is of possible criminal nature, then you might have been party to an investigation, in which case the LEO can demand ID.

The misunderstanding was that I went in to request a refund. The manager didn't like it, got mad, and threw me out.

The officer referred to it as a "disturbance", as the manager alleged I raised my voice (again according to the recording, I didn't)

[Skaven]

Did he suspect you were involved in criminal activity? Seems like that is the first question most of the open carry guys ask when an officer wants to see ID. I would more than likely give an officer my ID wether I had to or not because ultimately he can find out who I am anyway.

I am sure that the lady who called him said I was up to no good. But she embellished quite a bit based on his explanation of what she said I did.

I'd say refusing to show ID just escalates the situation and lends credibility in the eyes of the officer to her story. Showing him that you were a rational law abiding citizen does just the opposite.
Did he ask you to leave the area? Or did he say thanks, have a nice day?

He didn't ask me to leave. He told me I was completely within my rights to stay right where I was. I left anyways because there was no reason for me to stay beyond irritating the manager.

[jmra]

Did he suspect you were involved in criminal activity? Seems like that is the first question most of the open carry guys ask when an officer wants to see ID. I would more than likely give an officer my ID wether I had to or not because ultimately he can find out who I am anyway.

I am sure that the lady who called him said I was up to no good. But she embellished quite a bit based on his explanation of what she said I did.

I'd say refusing to show ID just escalates the situation and lends credibility in the eyes of the officer to her story. Showing him that you were a rational law abiding citizen does just the opposite.
Did he ask you to leave the area? Or did he say thanks, have a nice day?

He didn't ask me to leave. He told me I was completely within my rights to stay right where I was. I left anyways because there was no reason for me to stay beyond irritating the manager.

Sounds like a good encounter and an officer confirming that the woman was a crackpot.

[Skaven]

Did he suspect you were involved in criminal activity? Seems like that is the first question most of the open carry guys ask when an officer wants to see ID. I would more than likely give an officer my ID wether I had to or not because ultimately he can find out who I am anyway.

I am sure that the lady who called him said I was up to no good. But she embellished quite a bit based on his explanation of what she said I did.

I'd say refusing to show ID just escalates the situation and lends credibility in the eyes of the officer to her story. Showing him that you were a rational law abiding citizen does just the opposite.
Did he ask you to leave the area? Or did he say thanks, have a nice day?

He didn't ask me to leave. He told me I was completely within my rights to stay right where I was. I left anyways because there was no reason for me to stay beyond irritating the manager.

Sounds like a good encounter and an officer confirming that the woman was a crackpot.

Yeah the guy was really nice. Thanks all.

[SewTexas]

Did he suspect you were involved in criminal activity? Seems like that is the first question most of the open carry guys ask when an officer wants to see ID. I would more than likely give an officer my ID wether I had to or not because ultimately he can find out who I am anyway.

I am sure that the lady who called him said I was up to no good. But she embellished quite a bit based on his explanation of what she said I did.

I'd say refusing to show ID just escalates the situation and lends credibility in the eyes of the officer to her story. Showing him that you were a rational law abiding citizen does just the opposite.
Did he ask you to leave the area? Or did he say thanks, have a nice day?

He didn't ask me to leave. He told me I was completely within my rights to stay right where I was. I left anyways because there was no reason for me to stay beyond irritating the manager.

which....is probably why I probably would have stayed, at least for a round or two of candy crush I'm horrid, I admit it

[puma guy]

Did he suspect you were involved in criminal activity? Seems like that is the first question most of the open carry guys ask when an officer wants to see ID. I would more than likely give an officer my ID wether I had to or not because ultimately he can find out who I am anyway.

I am sure that the lady who called him said I was up to no good. But she embellished quite a bit based on his explanation of what she said I did.

I'm missing something here. Where was he and how did she call him? Was he working at the establishment you visited? If I had left as requested and was in a public parking lot inside my car, I'm not sure I would have cooperated with the LEO working security unless he was a witness to something actionable. I'd be back on the phone to corporate while the LEO was present to report their employee. If the LEO says it's within his duties and authorization while off duty I'd point out that the manager made a false report and he'd be duty bound to investigate her, especially since you recorded it. I may be completely off base, but that's my opinion

[bulinm]

Since he was not wearing a badge, I might have asked for HIS ID.