Ghostbuster at Dell?

[libertyhillguy]

I have been working @ dell in RR and all they have is a ghostbust sign on the doors Am i seeing this right? Any one else seen this?

[NcongruNt]

I have been working @ dell

My condolences. I worked that place for 2 years before I decided that job was not worth hating my own life.

As far as the gunbusters sign, I think I remember one at the entrance to building 7. Legally speaking (and I'm not a lawyer, so consult one if you want to hold someone to it), any sign other than a compliant 30.06 sign is meaningless. I wasn't a shooter back when I worked at Dell, so I'm not familiar with their policies regarding firearms. I'd check the employee manual to see if they've got 30.06 wording in there somewhere. I've purposely blocked out a lot of my time there from memory, but it's possible they had a verbal "no weapons" statement during blue badge orientation. I don't think there was anything regarding it during the red badge orientation.

Even if you're all clear legally, they'd still probably fire you if it was ever found out you were carrying. That place has an oppressive culture, and I can't see a company like Dell being pro-CHL. There was a time several years back when someone in HR decided to ban smoking on Dell property across the board, and sent out a company-wide e-mail announcing the new policy. For anyone not familiar with the Dell campus in Round Rock, there are places where it's over 1/4 mile of walking to get off of company property. HR promptly changed its mind when 70% of the technical support staff set their badges on their desk and walked out.

In summary, if they're not posted and you haven't been given verbal notification or written 30.06 language notification, you'd be legal. If you're ever found out, they'd probably fire you in a heartbeat.

EDIT: Also, welcome to the forum!

[libertyhillguy]

But i dont work for dell that is the only good thing, I do contract work there ( i.e. service work/fixing ). Funny thing is i also am working in Bldg 7 and i have not seen a 30.06 sign even in the parking lot.

[Kalrog]

I quit from Dell about a year ago. There is a "no weapons" policy in the handbook for sure, but I know that I NEVER received legal notification of CHLs being prohibited. I figured that with all of the lawyers that Dell has, if they really wanted to ban CHLs, they would do it right. The didn't, so I assumed that they didn't really want to ban them. I never asked to see if my assumption was correct.

[NcongruNt]

I quit from Dell about a year ago. There is a "no weapons" policy in the handbook for sure, but I know that I NEVER received legal notification of CHLs being prohibited. I figured that with all of the lawyers that Dell has, if they really wanted to ban CHLs, they would do it right. The didn't, so I assumed that they didn't really want to ban them. I never asked to see if my assumption was correct.

I wouldn't necessarily say that. It's a lot easier to fire someone than proceed with criminal charges for criminal trespass. The latter would require lawyer time, which is expensive. I'd venture to say that they left out the 30.06 because they're already legally covered in Texas for firing you in regards to a generic anti-weapons policy and that's a much less expensive route. It also takes much more effort (and cost) to prove in court with documentation that they gave someone effective notice under 30.06.

They also probably realize that litigation in the State of Texas with a CHL case is likely to get them some bad press, and Dell strives to portray its work environment as almost Utopian. I never did see anything like the fancy glass-topped cubicle walls, fancy hands-free sets, and LCD panel displays that they show their commercials. Then there's the gross misrepresentation of the gender balance there, which is portrayed as roughly 50/50 in their commercials. In actuality, I can remember there being less than maybe 15 women in a department of ~600 support techs at any given time while I was there. I think they probably intentionally left out the 30.06 language because it's more cost effective and better for PR.

[RoundRock_Gun_Fan]

I don't work for Dell but I do alot of contract work for Dell. When I went to apply for a badge we had to sit through an OSHA type class and we were told absolutely no guns were allowed in the buildings or in the employees vehicles. This was for employees only and since I don't work for Dell, oh well.
They said that hunters who think they will pack up their trucks and go hunting staight from work should reconsider. They said if we suspect you have guns in your vehicles we will search!
I haven't seen any 30.06 signs anywhere on the campus either but I still don't carry into the buildings, I just leave it in the car.

RR

[NcongruNt]

I don't work for Dell but I do alot of contract work for Dell. When I went to apply for a badge we had to sit through an OSHA type class and we were told absolutely no guns were allowed in the buildings or in the employees vehicles. This was for employees only and since I don't work for Dell, oh well.
They said that hunters who think they will pack up their trucks and go hunting staight from work should reconsider. They said if we suspect you have guns in your vehicles we will search!
I haven't seen any 30.06 signs anywhere on the campus either but I still don't carry into the buildings, I just leave it in the car.

RR

That verbal notification you received is 30.06 notification. If they said it to you, then it still applies. For it to be verbal, they just have to tell you you can't bring it, and there is no specific language requirement. This is different than when in written form, where it must exactly match the specified language, or in posted sign form, where it must match language and be in contrasting block letters 1" or larger.

PC §30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY
CONCEALED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if
the license holder:
(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chap-
ter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective
consent; and
(2) received notice that:
(A) entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed
handgun was forbidden; or
(B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was
forbidden and failed to depart.
(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the
owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the
owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.
(c) In this section:
(1) "Entry" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b).
(2) "License holder" has the meaning assigned by Section
46.035(f).
(3) "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language
identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code
(trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person
licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (con-
cealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed
handgun"; or
(B) a sign posted on the property that:
(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both
English and Spanish;
(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least
one inch in height; and
(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to
the public.
(d) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the prop-
erty on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased
by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which
the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under
Section 46.03 or 46.035.

[Steve #1]

there is no specific language requirement.

I would disagree, and you even highlighted why in red.
It's the difference between being told "Entry on the property with a concealed handgun is forbidden." and "Entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun is forbidden"

[NcongruNt]

there is no specific language requirement.

I would disagree, and you even highlighted why in red.
It's the difference between being told "Entry on the property with a concealed handgun is forbidden." and "Entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun is forbidden"

My impression is that the specifics are given because this passage specifically deals with trespass by a concealed handgun licensee. In my view, the precise wording is to clarify that this law only applies to CHL holders.

Perhaps I'm wrong and a manager/owner of a business who says to me "you cannot bring a gun here" has no authority over my CHL carry. Perhaps they have to say "you cannot bring a concealed handgun under the authority of a concealed handgun license here", but I'm thinking the first is enough to be legally binding. I was taught that any specific mention that carrying a gun on the premises is prohibited is adequate.

Perhaps some of those who are more intimate with the workings and intent of the law can bring clarification. TXI? Charles?

[chewy555]

I don't work for Dell but I do alot of contract work for Dell. When I went to apply for a badge we had to sit through an OSHA type class and we were told absolutely no guns were allowed in the buildings or in the employees vehicles. This was for employees only and since I don't work for Dell, oh well. .....
I haven't seen any 30.06 signs anywhere on the campus either but I still don't carry into the buildings, I just leave it in the car.

RR

The way that I see it since you are a contractor working for Dell then you are an employee of Dell. So to me, you can not have your weapon in your car. Now, can you be charged with tresspass, that I dont know. But you can be fired from working at Dell.

[RoundRock_Gun_Fan]

Ok, let me be a little more specific on what I do for Dell. I DON'T work for a temp agency that Dell hires from. My company does warranty repair work for Dell and we have office space in Dell facilities but we don't work for Dell. So if I goto the campus and thay want to search my car and I say no, which I definately will, they can ask me to leave but they can't fire me. I had to take the class to get a badge to avoid the security each time I came in.

That remindes me, what happened to the bill that would allow CHL holders to leave their weapons in their cars in the parking lot?

RR

[nitrogen]

That remindes me, what happened to the bill that would allow CHL holders to leave their weapons in their cars in the parking lot?

RR

It died.

I'm curious about the oral notice containing the "license holder" bit. That seems like a nitpicky thing, but i'd love to hear TXi's take on it (well I bet I know his take on it) and Charles' take on it as well.

Besides being the test case that is.

[Kalrog]

I'm pretty sure that oral notice was sufficient for 30.06 purposes. I never got notice like that at any point while I was an employee though.

[KBCraig]

The way that I see it since you are a contractor working for Dell then you are an employee of Dell. So to me, you can not have your weapon in your car. Now, can you be charged with tresspass, that I dont know. But you can be fired from working at Dell.

Absolutely not. Dell can fire the contractor, but they can't fire or hire the contractor's employees. Dell doesn't process payroll for the contractor's employees, nor withhold their taxes. Dell's worker's comp program doesn't cover the contractor's employees.

Contractors are not employees.

[libertyhillguy]

The way that I see it since you are a contractor working for Dell then you are an employee of Dell. So to me, you can not have your weapon in your car. Now, can you be charged with tresspass, that I dont know. But you can be fired from working at Dell.

Absolutely not. Dell can fire the contractor, but they can't fire or hire the contractor's employees. Dell doesn't process payroll for the contractor's employees, nor withhold their taxes. Dell's worker's comp program doesn't cover the contractor's employees.

Contractors are not employees.

I have a XD45 in my Work van @ Dell most of the time and IF they wanted to search my van I would just have to tell them NO. They dont owen the Van and dont have the right to search it they are not the police.