Citizens on Patrol, Community Watch Programs

[sanfordreed]

Only the Texas Penal Code regulates where and how weapons can be carried. Many cities and municipalities are passing out "rules" requesting volunteers with a CHL not carry. This would seem to be increasing the cities liability rather than limiting it, as they would hope.

[cb1000rider]

I like that better than posting false 30.06 signs and perhaps having LEOs enforce them.
I am curious, however, what are the statistics around CHLs preventing crime vs being involved in it? I know that statistically in TX, CHLers are something like 14 times less likely to be involved in violet crime than the general population....

But is there any real data on CHLers helping to decrease crime over being involved in it somehow? If so, this might be data worth passing along... If it's just conjecture, then it's hard to make a case for those types of rules especially when so many people are afraid of gun violence so they fear guns.

[texanjoker]

Only the Texas Penal Code regulates where and how weapons can be carried. Many cities and municipalities are passing out "rules" requesting volunteers with a CHL not carry. This would seem to be increasing the cities liability rather than limiting it, as they would hope.

I disagree. If one signs up to voluntarily be a citizen on patrol, they have to abide by their rules or don't do it. Many areas allow the COP drive a dept. vehicle. If one wants to drive the dept vehicle and carry a gun, nothing is preventing them from attending the academy and becoming a non paid officer aka reserve.

[Keith B]

Would not be breaking the law, but violating the rules of the COP program. If you want to be a mener of an organization, then you shoudl be willing to follow their rules and guidelines. If you are not able to do that, then don't join.

[fickman]

I joined 24 Hour Fitness. Their membership agreement has non-30.06 "no guns" wording. I signed it. I carry. The consequence of getting caught could be losing my membership with no refund. I weighed the risk and decided it was worth it.

I used to be a member of Fort Worth Citizens on Patrol. Their program involves patrols on foot, bicycle, or in your private vehicle. You have a police radio and "sign in" to start your patrol and "sign out" to end it. They do make you sign a paper saying you won't carry any firearm and explained it's required by their lawyers. You're also supposed to wear the polo shirt and use magnetic signs on your car during all patrols. If you're following all of the rules and get into some sort of liability issue, the city will defend you. If you're breaking the rules, you're on your own. I often did patrols with my wife as a ride along and SHE was carrying, but she had never signed the paper. I eventually decided that the program took too long, had limited benefits beyond the relationship I formed with a few area LEOs, and that I could do the same "eyes and ears" drives without a police radio. . . using the non-emergency number instead. Given the Zimmerman fiasco, the public perception of anybody in an altercation who was breaking the rules will not be good.

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Interestingly, the state against GZ tried to say he was a "wannabe" cop, yet the neighborhood watch coordinator from the PD said she asked GZ to join their COPs program and he declined. Wouldn't a "wannabe cop" have jumped at the chance? Also, it's important to note that, unlike COPs - which has distinct ways to say when a patrol is happening, neighborhood watch volunteers are never "on" or "off" duty. Any media reports saying he was "on patrol" are being sensational.

[suthdj]

Just be a good neighbor and report when needed. Then you don't have to worry about belonging to any group or being restricted in your activities.

[sanfordreed]

Only the Texas Penal Code regulates where and how weapons can be carried. Many cities and municipalities are passing out "rules" requesting volunteers with a CHL not carry. This would seem to be increasing the cities liability rather than limiting it, as they would hope.

I disagree. If one signs up to voluntarily be a citizen on patrol, they have to abide by their rules or don't do it. Many areas allow the COP drive a dept. vehicle. If one wants to drive the dept vehicle and carry a gun, nothing is preventing them from attending the academy and becoming a non paid officer aka reserve.

You make a good point about a volunteer who drives a city police car. I am not familiar with COP programs that issue uniforms and let you have a radio and police car. In that case, I could see maybe agreeing to not carrying if they requested it. I was more looking for feedback for simply volunteers out late at night in their own car, trying to help out in the neighborhood, and being asked by the local police officer to not carry a weapon, even if you have a CHL.

[Dave2]

Just be a good neighbor and report when needed. Then you don't have to worry about belonging to any group or being restricted in your activities.

Yep. I'm not going to go looking for trouble unarmed... it might find me.

[Bullitt]

...I know that statistically in TX, CHLers are something like 14 times less likely to be involved in viole[n]t crime than the general population...

That's good to hear. I would say that is a reflection of good CHL training that has an emphasis on not being in situations that could escalate into something else. I believe in stand your ground, but I do not believe in pursuit and confront. If other states, like perhaps FL, had better training programs, then we wouldn't have this current circus that is going on, IMO.

[texanjoker]

Only the Texas Penal Code regulates where and how weapons can be carried. Many cities and municipalities are passing out "rules" requesting volunteers with a CHL not carry. This would seem to be increasing the cities liability rather than limiting it, as they would hope.

I disagree. If one signs up to voluntarily be a citizen on patrol, they have to abide by their rules or don't do it. Many areas allow the COP drive a dept. vehicle. If one wants to drive the dept vehicle and carry a gun, nothing is preventing them from attending the academy and becoming a non paid officer aka reserve.

You make a good point about a volunteer who drives a city police car. I am not familiar with COP programs that issue uniforms and let you have a radio and police car. In that case, I could see maybe agreeing to not carrying if they requested it. I was more looking for feedback for simply volunteers out late at night in their own car, trying to help out in the neighborhood, and being asked by the local police officer to not carry a weapon, even if you have a CHL.

for a while I was incharge of the stations seniors on patrol. They wore a uniform, (different color shirt) with patches and a cloth badge, drove a white marked car that said seniors on patrol, sheriff, ect, wore radios and ALWAYS showed up during a hot call driving in the middle of the incident or yacking on the radio when we were on emergency traffic aside from that they were some good people that meant well and did good.

[carlson1]

I joined 24 Hour Fitness. Their membership agreement has non-30.06 "no guns" wording. I signed it. I carry. The consequence of getting caught could be losing my membership with no refund. I weighed the risk and decided it was worth it.

Do you know if they used the 30.06 exact wording?

[philip964]

Sarcasm on/ I just bet everyone is just signing up in droves to be on a Citizens on Patrol or a Community Watch Program. No doubt after hearing an insurance company paid out a cool 1 mil to the Martin family, I bet Civic Association insurance rates arn't going up either. And arn't we are all now just a little bit safer. Sarcasm off/ At least the jury did vote for guilty.

[anygunanywhere]

Every time I get in my vehicle I am a citizen on patrol. If I see a crime I report it. Plus I am armed.

Anygunanywhere

[cb1000rider]

Do you know if they used the 30.06 exact wording?

It's quoted above. Why would it matter? It's not a building or property.

[carlson1]

Do you know if they used the 30.06 exact wording?

It's quoted above. Why would it matter? It's not a building or property.

I mis-read. It matters because I wanted to know!