Qualify for CHL? Do I need it?

[CoffeeNut]

Do you guys think taking a CHL class even if I can't get my license would be helpful? Is that even allowed?

If you're willing to pay the class fee then I'm sure you wouldn't be turned down. They don't do background checks to take the class ;). You get a lot of useful information in the class including that when carrying a firearm legally its your primary responsibility to de-escalate the situation. If you're in a verbal argument and you continue the argument rather than trying to calm everyone down or leave and the end result is you discharging your weapon you're likely to end up in a George Zimmerman situation.

I'm not a cop or a lawyer but I am available for jury duty.

[Awslater]

Zimmerman! Yep! That's why I really don't ever want to be in that situation. I even feel that with my record it makes me look bad enough even if it was justifiable! Which brings to to another subject. What do you guys think about the brandishing law or concealment law. Most of my friends stories and just random people's stories of deescalating the situation involved brandishing their weapon and deescalating the situation by seeing the threat flee like rabbits! lol. Most of the people with these stories claims it works because the person you pulled the gun out on is breaking the law and will not inform the police that you just aimed a firearm at them. 100% guaranteed! Plus they will most likely never come back around! This is just what I've been told and a lot of people I've talked to endorse this behavior as opposed to just shooting someone and ending up in court. It is a felony assault with a deadly weapon charge if I'm correct so I don't see why they do it! Either way it's possible to end up in court am I right? But they say it should work 99% of the time. lol. Although, that 1 % makes me suspicious of their advice!

[Wodathunkit]

You absolutely can take the class regardless if you ever apply for your license. I have a couple of buddies that took the course and learned during the class that they wouldn't feel comfortable enough to carry.

As far as cleaning up and walking the straight and narrow, good luck with that I'm no one to judge, I was responding earlier to your original post. I think if this is something you seriously want to do (CHL) you should find a lawyer and see what options are open to you.

As far as chambered vs non chambered, you should only do what you are comfortable with. With having a laded firearm you are already ahead of 80% of the population, just don't run into the wrong crowd of he other 20%

[lrpettit]

Most of my friends stories and just random people's stories of deescalating the situation involved brandishing their weapon and deescalating the situation by seeing the threat flee like rabbits!

I don't think you'll find anybody on this forum that would think brandishing your weapon except when deadly force is authorized would be a good idea. There are also plenty of threads advising you to call 911 before the BG if you have to show your weapon.

[The Annoyed Man]

There is no "brandishing law" in Texas.

There is a part of the CHL code which makes it illegal to "intentionally fail to conceal" your firearm. UNintentional failure to conceal is not illegal. but if you have to use your gun, then you must necessarily un-conceal it. I'm not going to take the time to quote you chapter and verse, but generally, it goes like this: If you thought you were legally justified in drawing to gun to use it in self-defense, and the other party suddenly discovers urgent business elsewhere, you're good to go—CAVEAT to follow. If you would not have been justified to use the gun, then you weren't justified in drawing it either.

CAVEAT: You can't draw the gun "as a warning." You have to reasonably believe that either you, or a third party whom you are defending, are being or are about to be assaulted by the BG. You can't draw a gun on someone who is giving you lip and tell him to move on or you'll bust a cap in his hindparts. IMPORTANT: If you DO have to draw your gun, even if you don't fire it, as soon as you can call 911 and tell them that someone threatened you and that you had to draw your weapon to protect yourself, no shots were fired, and the attacker left when he saw your gun. First person to make that phone call is the good guy, so you better be first.

[Awslater]

Def good advice to follow and that's what I thought from reading the Texas penal code. Yea I don't understand some peoples logic with drawing their weapon to scare someone off if they verbally assault you. I had a friend a while back who told me he got into a few road rage situations and one of those times 2 guys in a SUV chased him and started throwing full cans of beer or possible soda cans at his truck while driving on I-10. He said one almost flew into his open window and hit him in the face. That's when he pulled out the .45 XD and saw them hit the brakes and almost wreck on the highway. Bottom line is they backed off and he went on his way afterwards with no more threat following him. I had another guy tell me a similar story as well. Both still walking free as well!

I don't condone this behavior either but I'd also like to state that I knew for a fact both of these guys had a CHL! I don't own one and I even know better than that. But somehow there are people out there using this type of reaction to deescalate situations.

Also when I said friend, I really just mean some guys I know such as associates or classmates. Not speaking of real good friends I would allow into my house! lol. Just clearing that up. I guess seeking real legal advice from a lawyer and taking a CHL class will do me some good. Until I learn more information I'll just stick to keeping it in my house and vehicle concealed!

[jmra]

Yes, I am one of those doesn't feel the need to have a round in the chamber when I carry. I've lived 31 years without having to shoot someone and will hopefully live the rest of my life without having to do so.

Not having a round in the chamber could very well ensure that you don't shoot anyone for the rest of your life. Just may mean the rest of your life isn't as long as you hoped it would be.

[C-dub]

Taking the class is a good idea. Tell us what city you are in and we can probably recommend a good instructor or three.

I haven't had anyone try to pick a fight with me for over 20 years and my Rottweiler convinced him it wouldn't be in his best interest. I haven't been in a fight for over 25 years. That was before the Rottie. I'm getting up there now and the last thing I want is a hand to hand fight. What are you doing to upset these folks that makes them want to fight you? Figuring that out and doing what you can to change that behavior might solve many of your problems.

[JP171]

There is no "brandishing law" in Texas.

There is a part of the CHL code which makes it illegal to "intentionally fail to conceal" your firearm. UNintentional failure to conceal is not illegal. but if you have to use your gun, then you must necessarily un-conceal it. I'm not going to take the time to quote you chapter and verse, but generally, it goes like this: If you thought you were legally justified in drawing to gun to use it in self-defense, and the other party suddenly discovers urgent business elsewhere, you're good to go—CAVEAT to follow. If you would not have been justified to use the gun, then you weren't justified in drawing it either.

CAVEAT: You can't draw the gun "as a warning." You have to reasonably believe that either you, or a third party whom you are defending, are being or are about to be assaulted by the BG. You can't draw a gun on someone who is giving you lip and tell him to move on or you'll bust a cap in his hindparts. IMPORTANT: If you DO have to draw your gun, even if you don't fire it, as soon as you can call 911 and tell them that someone threatened you and that you had to draw your weapon to protect yourself, no shots were fired, and the attacker left when he saw your gun. First person to make that phone call is the good guy, so you better be first.

sorry TAM this is incorrect the law only requires you to have been legal at the force level to produce(pull) your weapon and force is what ever it takes to end the encounter, so if the BG is threatening you you may respond in kind by pulling your weapon, you do not have to be at the deadly threat level to pull your weapon

[srothstein]

You'll need to get copies of the official disposition from the court on these two cases. First, the 1999 case could not have been a class C if you were sentenced to jail.

This is true and how the law reads. But there are ways around every law. For example, the law allows a person to be held in jail in leiu of paying the fine if they refuse to pay the fine or are unable to for reasons other than poverty (SCOTUS outlawed the poverty clause way back). So, if his mom refused to pay the fine and he did not know how to argue poverty, I can see how he could spend a week in jail. Not common, but possible and some JPs would do it to a young man they thought it might help.

Second, the lowest grade of evading in the Penal code is a class A, but there are many ways that can become a felony. Without the details, nobody can tell you if you are eligible, or whether you are currently breaking the law by being in possession of a firearm.

This is also true, but may not have been when the offense occurred. The penalty was upgraded from B to A in 2009, so if the offense occurred on August 31, 2009 at 11:30 p.m. it would have been a class B offense and if it occurred a mere 31 minutes later, it would have been a class A.

You are correct that details can be very important in some cases.

Awslater,

I agree that as you have related the incidents, you will be eligible for a CHL in 2016. You may carry under other authorities until then, such as in your car or business, but be very careful with carrying your pistol anywhere out of the car other than your home or business.

[C-dub]

It's seriously a hassle to carry a Glock 22 inside of a CCW bag filled with other stuff.

Maybe I missed any condemnation of this statement in one of the previous posts, but I think the issue of safety (or a lack of an external safety) with carrying a loaded, chambered weapon with "other stuff" is ill advised at the very least.

Beyond that potential problem, the discussion to carry chambered or not could go on ad naseum, but the matter of safe gun handling trumps, IMO,the OP's method of carry.

I did miss that , but maybe that's why he doesn't carry with a round in the chamber. If that's the case then that's a wise choice.

[Awslater]

I live in Houston. I was stating my experience with previous fights when I was younger. I actually haven't been in any real street fights since 2004. So I was a bit younger when fights were common in my life. The place I grew up in had lots of crimes, gangs, and other madness going on quite a bit. Still does if not worse by now! I didn't have a choice most of the time especially once someone slapped or punched me or by grabbing my belongings out my hands to mess with me. Bullying and violence in schools and on the streets is no joke. Hell look at what just happened at Cy Fair college here in Houston the other day. I also felt like If I didn't fight back some of those times the crap would just get worse anyways. I can recall at least 2 occasions during a fight where after I threw a good jab-cross combo and connected, my attacker would immediately lounge at my legs & grab me, with the intentions of getting me on the ground, and beating me senseless. It's similar to real cage fight, just without rules, fairness, and the guys friends joining in. I've been jumped once but luckily wasn't hurt very bad, but then again I've also witnessed someone else get jumped outside school and he ended up in a coma for a few days! Crazy stuff can happen whether you add fuel to the fire or not. I've also had friends murdered by guns and knifes for all sorts of ridiculous reason! I actually feel blessed and lucky nothing seriously bad has happened to me or any of my family members. But I can't say the same thing about many of my peers. The female victims I've known throughout the years disturbs me the most. This may not seem real but I can assure you that it is real life stuff!

I've experienced a lot in my 31 years of life dealing with violent people on the streets and in schools. Stuff like this hasn't happened in a long time but just like any situation you never know when it will. I had one crazy guy who threatened to stab me with a knife as I was filling up gas several years back. He started slashing at me from 10 ft. away with a knife asking me if I had a problem. After I apologized calmly he just got in his car and took off. From my understanding I was looking at him because it was obvious he was looking at me suspiciously. Just being cautious of my surroundings. Plus the fact he had tattoos all over his face and was starring at me to begin with made me really suspicious. People are literally crazy nowadays and it is pretty scary not knowing somebody's intentions! But I did notice something was wrong at the time. My only defense at the time would have been to spray the gas I was filling in my vehicle into his face if he were to attack me. That situation was avoided pretty well though. (I almost forgot to add the best part!) He had his girlfriend and baby in the back seat too!

But yes to answer the question it was definitely harsh growing up for me around here. I have corrected my attitude on dealing with this kind of nonsense for many years now and it's worked out very well. I've been training various martial arts for over 9 years which actually made me better at dealing with trouble on the streets. Especially with my confidence and self-control with controlling the fight before it even happens. My first line of defense is usually martial arts because attackers usually get right in your face. It's a mind game in many ways! But regardless you never know what someones intentions are. Which led me to buying a firearm for protection. All the MA instructors I've had also emphasized on keeping the fights in the ring and letting guns & police officers deal with the criminals & problems on the streets. Nowadays somebody will flick me off on the road and i just ignore it and continue driving as if they didn't exist. When I was younger I probably would have gave them the finger back and proceeded to yell obscenities out an open window to them. I have grown up quite a bit and will continue to walk as straight of a line as possible. Trouble of any kind isn't good for me or my family and we all deal with enough normal problems as it is!

I will probably carry my weapon loaded in the future but as of now I don't believe I'm ready to. In fact I've decided that carrying into the business is not practical for me right now because I can't get a CHL and will only keep it at home and in my vehicle until I learn more and talk to a lawyer.

[KRM45]

You'll need to get copies of the official disposition from the court on these two cases. First, the 1999 case could not have been a class C if you were sentenced to jail.

This is true and how the law reads. But there are ways around every law. For example, the law allows a person to be held in jail in leiu of paying the fine if they refuse to pay the fine or are unable to for reasons other than poverty (SCOTUS outlawed the poverty clause way back). So, if his mom refused to pay the fine and he did not know how to argue poverty, I can see how he could spend a week in jail. Not common, but possible and some JPs would do it to a young man they thought it might help.

I see where you're coming from here. I was going on the "convicted as an adult and sentenced to 30 days"... Something just didn't add up.

Second, the lowest grade of evading in the Penal code is a class A, but there are many ways that can become a felony. Without the details, nobody can tell you if you are eligible, or whether you are currently breaking the law by being in possession of a firearm.

This is also true, but may not have been when the offense occurred. The penalty was upgraded from B to A in 2009, so if the offense occurred on August 31, 2009 at 11:30 p.m. it would have been a class B offense and if it occurred a mere 31 minutes later, it would have been a class A.

You are correct that details can be very important in some cases.

Thanks for the information on the change in the law.

[Awslater]

Wow! Thanks for the info! It does seem like I avoided the Class A by weeks if not days! Hell they probably changed it because of me. lol. I'm pretty sure I got the officer in trouble as well for the way he dealt with the situation. In fact I haven't seen that officer since and he was normally patrolling the area. But yea I'm just glad nothing seriously bad happened in that situation. I was really scarred of him at the time which also forced my instincts to start running. I could have been shot by the officer for all I know? He was definitively a rookie and treated the whole situation unprofessionally. If he only didn't scare the crap outta me and give me a chance to run things might have gone differently. I honestly should have just been arrested for the 2 small joints I had. sigh!