G26ster wrote:Never been a Marine, so do ALL Marines train and qualify with a pistol?
No.
Thanks.
The thread begs the question, as I cannot find the answer, under what section of the code can military qualification be substituted for the handgun proficiency "demonstration?" I can find exemptions for "training" for active duty and vets, but not an exemption for the proficiency "demonstration."
He's referring to this:
Sec. 411.1881. EXEMPTION FROM INSTRUCTION FOR CERTAIN PERSONS. (a) Notwithstanding any other provision of this subchapter, a person may not be required to complete the range instruction portion of a handgun proficiency course to obtain or renew a concealed handgun license issued under this subchapter if the person:
(1) is currently serving in or is honorably discharged from:
(A) the army, navy, air force, coast guard, or marine corps of the United States or an auxiliary service or reserve unit of one of those branches of the armed forces; or
(B) the state military forces, as defined by Section 431.001; and
(2) has, within the five years preceding the date of the person's application for an original or renewed license, as applicable, completed a course of training in handgun proficiency or familiarization as part of the person's service with the armed forces or state military forces.
(b) The director by rule shall adopt a procedure by which a license holder who is exempt under Subsection (a) from the range instruction portion of the handgun proficiency requirement may submit a form demonstrating the license holder's qualification for an exemption under that subsection. The form must provide sufficient information to allow the department to verify whether the license holder qualifies for the exemption.
The Constitution preserves the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation where the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. James Madison
NRA Life Member Texas Firearms Coalition member
G26ster wrote:Never been a Marine, so do ALL Marines train and qualify with a pistol?
No.
Thanks.
The thread begs the question, as I cannot find the answer, under what section of the code can military qualification be substituted for the handgun proficiency "demonstration?" I can find exemptions for "training" for active duty and vets, but not an exemption for the proficiency "demonstration."
He's referring to this:
Sec. 411.1881. EXEMPTION FROM INSTRUCTION FOR CERTAIN PERSONS. (a) Notwithstanding any other provision of this subchapter, a person may not be required to complete the range instruction portion of a handgun proficiency course to obtain or renew a concealed handgun license issued under this subchapter if the person:
(1) is currently serving in or is honorably discharged from:
(A) the army, navy, air force, coast guard, or marine corps of the United States or an auxiliary service or reserve unit of one of those branches of the armed forces; or
(B) the state military forces, as defined by Section 431.001; and
(2) has, within the five years preceding the date of the person's application for an original or renewed license, as applicable, completed a course of training in handgun proficiency or familiarization as part of the person's service with the armed forces or state military forces.
(b) The director by rule shall adopt a procedure by which a license holder who is exempt under Subsection (a) from the range instruction portion of the handgun proficiency requirement may submit a form demonstrating the license holder's qualification for an exemption under that subsection. The form must provide sufficient information to allow the department to verify whether the license holder qualifies for the exemption.
Thanks once again. That's exactly what is causing the confusion in my mind. GC411.188 says:
"Only a qualified handgun instructor may administer a handgun proficiency course. The handgun proficiency course must include at least 10 hours and not more than 15 hours of instruction on:
(1) the laws that relate to weapons and to the use of deadly force;
(2) handgun use, proficiency, and safety;
(3) nonviolent dispute resolution; and
(4) proper storage practices for handguns with an emphasis on storage practices that eliminate the possibility of accidental injury to a child."
and
"(2) a physical demonstration of proficiency in the use of one or more handguns of specific categories and in handgun safety procedures."
Section Sec. 411.1881 that you cited only says, "a person may not be required to complete the range instruction portion of a handgun proficiency course..."
As there's a vast difference between "instruction" and "testing" (demonstrating proficiency), if Sec. 411.1881 is meant to exempt the proficiency test, it should use wording other than, "a person may not be required to complete the range instruction portion..." It makes no mention of not requiring the "testing" (demonstration) portion. Very poorly worded IMHO.
I am a CHL instructor and I was a small arms instructor and CMT in the Marines. Not all Marines get to shoot the pistol, but if you did you must send in your paper work from MOL to the state to by pass the quall portion. No Marine in there right mind would want to though, you sure your not NAVY?
I have a question for instructors. If a student wants to skip the shooting test, do you give them a certificate for the eight or nine hours of classroom they attended or do you offer a private lesson for an extra hour or two so they can get a certificate showing the required ten hour minimum?
When I find myself in times of trouble
Mother Mary comes to me
Speaking words of wisdom:
"S times 3"
Richardc wrote:I am a CHL instructor and I was a small arms instructor and CMT in the Marines. Not all Marines get to shoot the pistol, but if you did you must send in your paper work from MOL to the state to by pass the quall portion. No Marine in there right mind would want to though, you sure your not NAVY?
I was in the Navy. I couldn't hit the broad side of the barn with a 1911. I won my sharpshooter medal with the rifle though. In fact (long story), the rifle and pistol range was the only portion of "advanced" bootcamp that I attended ('cause i love to shoot.)
The Constitution preserves the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation where the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. James Madison
NRA Life Member Texas Firearms Coalition member
S_3 wrote:I have a question for instructors. If a student wants to skip the shooting test, do you give them a certificate for the eight or nine hours of classroom they attended or do you offer a private lesson for an extra hour or two so they can get a certificate showing the required ten hour minimum?
I make them do the range time. You have to do ten hours no matter what. If i dont think you can qualify you dont pass my class.
S_3 wrote:I have a question for instructors. If a student wants to skip the shooting test, do you give them a certificate for the eight or nine hours of classroom they attended or do you offer a private lesson for an extra hour or two so they can get a certificate showing the required ten hour minimum?
I make them do the range time. You have to do ten hours no matter what. If i dont think you can qualify you dont pass my class.
You might want to ask DPS about your policy. If the statute says they are exempt from the shooting test, you cannot force them to do it. You could deny them entry to your class, but failing the classroom portion because of a non-required shooting test would surely be disallowed.
S_3 wrote:I have a question for instructors. If a student wants to skip the shooting test, do you give them a certificate for the eight or nine hours of classroom they attended or do you offer a private lesson for an extra hour or two so they can get a certificate showing the required ten hour minimum?
I make them do the range time. You have to do ten hours no matter what. If i dont think you can qualify you dont pass my class.
You might want to ask DPS about your policy. If the statute says they are exempt from the shooting test, you cannot force them to do it. You could deny them entry to your class, but failing the classroom portion because of a non-required shooting test would surely be disallowed.
Why not give then a certificate with Classroom = PASS and Proficiency = N/A and total time = 9 hours?
S_3 wrote:I have a question for instructors. If a student wants to skip the shooting test, do you give them a certificate for the eight or nine hours of classroom they attended or do you offer a private lesson for an extra hour or two so they can get a certificate showing the required ten hour minimum?
I make them do the range time. You have to do ten hours no matter what. If i dont think you can qualify you dont pass my class.
You might want to ask DPS about your policy. If the statute says they are exempt from the shooting test, you cannot force them to do it. You could deny them entry to your class, but failing the classroom portion because of a non-required shooting test would surely be disallowed.
Why not give then a certificate with Classroom = PASS and Proficiency = N/A and total time = 9 hours?
That would be the correct outcome, assuming the classroom portion was 9 hours.
ADDED: In my upcoming military classes, we are doing 10 hours classroom because so many don't need to shoot. Shooting is additional time, for logistical reasons.
