Carry in Texas Renaissance Festival

[trentwhite778]

I think there is still some confusion. This thread is talking about the Texas renaissance festival in plantersville tx near Houston. NOT Scarborough faire in waxahachie.

Scarborough faire is posted. Texas ren fest is not.

Now, having said that, I was just there this weekend and while there are no 30.06 signs ANYWHERE there Are 51% signs both on the fence as you walk up to then entrance from the parking area, AND posted right at the entrance to the park. I thought this was strange. It appears that they really are trying to enforce the no gun thing but instead of posting valid signage they're just using extra 51% signs.

I didn't end up carrying inside because I didn't want to be a test case for a carrying past a valid sign posted at an invalid location.

Main entrance


Main fence from campgrounds to entrance

[gringo pistolero]

"Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. A fence is not a building but concealed is concealed.

[TexasCajun]

Must've just put those up because there were no signs when I went on Oct 20. I guess the question now is can the entire Ren Fest be posted as 51% when only a couple of booths out of the 100+ actually serve alcohol? And if so, how?

[Keith B]

Must've just put those up because there were no signs when I went on Oct 20. I guess the question now is can the entire Ren Fest be posted as 51% when only a couple of booths out of the 100+ actually serve alcohol? And if so, how?

Sure it can be posted, and is... It's just not valid. The only place that is 51% is the locations I mentioned in this post that show GUN SIGN RED.

[SewTexas]

I so don't see how they make 51% or more from alcohol? not when you add in the $$$ jewelry and those $200 capes that I would love.

[JP171]

I so don't see how they make 51% or more from alcohol? not when you add in the $$$ jewelry and those $200 capes that I would love.

TRF does not make 51% from on premise sales, and they do not make the prices of clothing or anything else that comes from the shops, the vendors do, the make a percentage from the gross sales of items from the shops. and the percentage is why they aren't 51%, if they didn't make that percentage then they would be 51%, TRF ownes all the beer boothes and both the "bars" within TRF, the food shops are vendors. TABC only considers the 2 bars as 51%

[SewTexas]

exactly, which is why those red 51% signs are wrong put up. Someone needs to call TABC and have them removed from the fences.

a RED 51% at the entrance of Wurst Fest in New Braunfels this weekend....that was correct, although it was really hard to see, I was looking, anyone not really looking wouldn't have seen it.

[Althornin]

Do the 51% signs even matter?
If, as the OP was discussing, RE: carrying a black powder flintlock inside the festival:
He is not carrying a firearm, or a handgun:

PC §46.01. DEFINITIONS.
(3) “Firearm” means any device designed, made, or adapted to expel a projectile through a barrel by using the energy generated by an explosion or burning substance or any device readily convertible to
that use. Firearm does not include a firearm that may have, as an integral part, a folding knife blade or other characteristics of weapons made illegal by this chapter and that is:
(A) an antique or curio firearm manufactured before 1899; or
(B) a replica of an antique or curio firearm manufactured before 1899, but only if the replica does not use rim fire or center fire ammunition.
(5) “Handgun” means any firearm that is designed, made, or adapted to be fired with one hand.

So then we look at:
PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:
(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;

All of which only relates to handguns, which per definitions in PC 46.01, you are not carrying.

So, don't carry it concealed, as it is not covered under CHL, and you'll be fine. I have routinely carried my (unloaded) flintlock into TRF for years (I'm there most weekends, camping). Some of the participants carry flintlocks (that work) and will shoot them (with a paper wad) at times. No big deal.

As an edit to my own post:
PC 46.035
(j) Subsections (a) and (b)(1) do not apply to a historical reenactment performed in compliance with the rules of the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission.

One could argue that a Renaissance Festival constitutes a historical reenactment, perhaps :)

[philip964]

Apparently there is no sign against open carry of swords.

[TexasCajun]

I took it upon myself to file a complaint against the Texas Renaissance Festival with the TABC. Here's the response I received today:

"Mr. xxxxx,

My name is xxxxx and I am the xxxxx for the Coastal Bend Region of the TABC, which covers the Texas Renaissance Festival. You are correct that the entire festival grounds does not need a 51% sign. The reason behind this is that the entire festival grounds are not licensed to sell alcoholic beverages. Actually, each individual booth that sells alcohol has a separate permit only for that specific booth. They each hold a Wine and Beer Retailer’s On-Premise permit, but only the booth is licensed, so you don’t actually enter the premises unless you go into the booth, building or beer garden area.

I have issued a complaint so that our Agents can review the signage and instruct the folks at the festival on the proper placement. I have asked the investigating Agent to contact you when their investigation is complete to inform you of the outcome.

If you have any more questions or concerns please do not hesitate to call or email me. Your personal information will remain anonymous as you requested.

Thank you for taking the time to bring this to our attention."


Huzzah!!!

[Althornin]

Thanks TexasCajun!
That means we could actually conceal carry our normal weapons in, as long as they don't have 30.06 signs posted (which I haven't seen, and I'm there most weekends).

Of course, I'm usually in a pub/tavern, drunk as a skunk and having a jolly good time with friends, so I won't be carrying at all inside the festival, but good news for others.

[Keith B]

Thanks TexasCajun!
That means we could actually conceal carry our normal weapons in, as long as they don't have 30.06 signs posted (which I haven't seen, and I'm there most weekends).

Of course, I'm usually in a pub/tavern, drunk as a skunk and having a jolly good time with friends, so I won't be carrying at all inside the festival, but good news for others.

You are close, but it means you can carry anywhere in the festival OTHER than the two booths that actually are 51% businesses and licensed as such.

A 30.06 is a separate thing and if they had one posted at the gate it WOULD make the whole location off limits.

[TexasCajun]

I don't drink, so the TABC 51% posting of the 2 "taverns" doesn't concern me. But I didn't think it was right for them to start posting the whole venue as they apparently have. If they do post the Ren-Fest with 30.06, that would be a whole different ball game. But so far, they have not (at least they hadn't when I went last month). Believe me, I gave this a lot of thought before registering the complaint because this does run the risk of somebody up there deciding to do some research on exactly what signage they would need in order to prevent concealed carry. But in the end, I figured that I might as well fight the dragon that's in front of me instead of worrying about the one that may or may not be behind that one.

[benenglishtx]

I know that the concealed issue has been thoroughly discussed and I have no intent to bring that up again.

Can anybody point me to the definitive thread on the topic? I've used the search but I get so many hits, I can't tell what's what. I guess this is (or has been) a popular topic.

[68blackbird]

Apparently there is no sign against open carry of swords.]

Good thing, if they change that, I'll have to change my garb.....




On a more serious note, I want to once again thank Mr. Cotton and the great folks in this forum for providing a great source for any and all thing pertaining to CHL. I hope to take my class very soon, and I know I will be ahead of the game going into it from reading the great threads here.