Defending Your Property Line

[Heartland Patriot]

I agree that if someone is trespassing and ignore either signs not to trespass OR a verbal warning to leave, then you should call law enforcement and let them handle it. That said, I am curious where in the penal code CHLers are instructed to have greater responsibility. Please note that I am NOT advocating applying force, or deadly force, if you are not in danger. However, it seems to me that CHLers are required to follow the law, like anyone else (including politicians who continuously do NOT follow the laws and seem to think they are above doing so). I understand conflict resolution and would MUCH rather apply that than to get into a bad situation.

[Valk]

I have to agree with some of the above.
1) why did you go back inside to get your gun? Did they have weapons? If so I can understand but I would probably guess no (other than tools)
2) Why did you not ask their intent? Then express your concern
3) Why did you not offer a viable alternative to using your yard. (If they had even planned on using it)
4) It appears to me you were de-escalating before any escalation even happened. This is not a good thing, especially if you are armed.

Remember, your CHL and your weapon does not replace the best tool you have, your brain. You have to really know when you would have to use it or expect a whole lot of trouble coming your way.

At no time was I armed. This happened BEFORE I got a CHL.

Their plan was to come up my driveway and make a turn on the side of my house and then head for the neighbor’s gate. They had a straight shot from the street to the neighbor's gate.

My purpose was to stop them from coming in my yard and leaving tracks.

[fickman]

Here in suburbia, I have to stand a few feet in my neighbor's yard to finish mowing one of my side yards. He's never complained. . . I guess he likes that I keep my yard nice.

If I had acreage and caught people blazing a trail / shortcut through my property that they planned to use to regularly access their property, we'd have a discussion about that. In fact, you could potentially lose your property if they use it as a right of way for too long and you never challenge it.

I know all of my neighbors and I expect I'd actually help them shortcut through my yard if he needed assistance getting some project done. I have no doubt that either neighbor would look after any damage caused on my property and give me some dirt, replacement squares of St. Augustine, or help me wield a shovel to repair it.

Sounds like a neighborly cookout is in order.

I agree with others - unless you're personally being threatened (or your loved ones), operate as if you have no firearm.

[RPBrown]

I have to agree with some of the above.
1) why did you go back inside to get your gun? Did they have weapons? If so I can understand but I would probably guess no (other than tools)
2) Why did you not ask their intent? Then express your concern
3) Why did you not offer a viable alternative to using your yard. (If they had even planned on using it)
4) It appears to me you were de-escalating before any escalation even happened. This is not a good thing, especially if you are armed.

Remember, your CHL and your weapon does not replace the best tool you have, your brain. You have to really know when you would have to use it or expect a whole lot of trouble coming your way.

At no time was I armed. This happened BEFORE I got a CHL.

Their plan was to come up my driveway and make a turn on the side of my house and then head for the neighbor’s gate. They had a straight shot from the street to the neighbor's gate.

My purpose was to stop them from coming in my yard and leaving tracks.

But in the OP, you said you went back in and got your pistol and laid it out of site (personally I carry mine with me off or on my property but I have a CHL) Again, try talking to them first. Be friendly and explain that you do not want them crossing your property. At that point, you have given effective trespass notice and if they do come across your property, you should call LEO.

Not trying to dog on you, just offering alternate ways of handling things. I have met some of my neighbors by accident just by asking questions similar to this.

[Valk]

But in the OP, you said you went back in and got your pistol and laid it out of site (personally I carry mine with me off or on my property but I have a CHL) Again, try talking to them first. Be friendly and explain that you do not want them crossing your property. At that point, you have given effective trespass notice and if they do come across your property, you should call LEO.

Not trying to dog on you, just offering alternate ways of handling things. I have met some of my neighbors by accident just by asking questions similar to this.

I can’t help it if I look like Luca Brasi (I’m not as big and am more handsome), but I “do have a look” (as was told to me by my neighbor after Hurricane Rita). I knew my (former) neighbors were getting ripped off by a contractor from Houston, and she asked me to come over and join her for their meeting. She would be asking the contractor for their money back. She said I didn't have to say anything, just sit there. I thought that was very funny as I do not see myself that way.

[Jim Beaux]

Valk, Im not trying to pile on here, but I feel an obligation to tell you that if the situation you outlined had escalated and you ended up in court on a gun related charge, I think that the majority here, if on the jury,would probably have voted to convict.

CHL or not, you cannot initiate a confrontation and expect to be able to use your weapon to settle what basically is a civil matter. Think it through, there are so many avenues you can take to ensure your property rights and they all are cheaper than using your gun.

Im sure one of our fellow lawyers will be by soon and have something to contribute.

[Valk]

Valk, Im not trying to pile on here, but I feel an obligation to tell you that if the situation you outlined had escalated and you ended up in court on a gun related charge, I think that the majority here, if on the jury,would probably have voted to convict.

CHL or not, you cannot initiate a confrontation and expect to be able to use your weapon to settle what basically is a civil matter. Think it through, there are so many avenues you can take to ensure your property rights and they all are cheaper than using your gun.

Im sure one of our fellow lawyers will be by soon and have something to contribute.

I did not initiate a confrontation. I didn't say a word. My gun was over 50 feet away and I would have had to go around 2 cars and a motorcycle. I'm sure I could have taken at least 2 of them. The other 3 would have had to wait their turn. My next step, had they not changed their plan, would have forced their hand because they would have had to run over me.

[Keith B]

Valk, Im not trying to pile on here, but I feel an obligation to tell you that if the situation you outlined had escalated and you ended up in court on a gun related charge, I think that the majority here, if on the jury,would probably have voted to convict.

CHL or not, you cannot initiate a confrontation and expect to be able to use your weapon to settle what basically is a civil matter. Think it through, there are so many avenues you can take to ensure your property rights and they all are cheaper than using your gun.

Im sure one of our fellow lawyers will be by soon and have something to contribute.

I did not initiate a confrontation. I didn't say a word. My gun was over 50 feet away and I would have had to go around 2 cars and a motorcycle. I'm sure I could have taken at least 2 of them. The other 3 would have had to wait their turn. My next step, had they not changed their plan, would have forced their hand because they would have had to run over me.

So you are saying you were already in a confrontational mindset (I could have taken them....) And you WENT and got your gun. This is the whole problem. Instead of politely asking that they not encroach on your property line, you were ready to fight. We as a society are so set on this method of confrontation that we can't seem to realize that someone may be very willing to work with you and keep off of your property.

Sometimes people need to see if there really is a problem instead of envisioning one and then approaching the situation as if it has already reached that point.

[cubbyjg]

I did not initiate a confrontation. I didn't say a word. My gun was over 50 feet away and I would have had to go around 2 cars and a motorcycle. I'm sure I could have taken at least 2 of them. The other 3 would have had to wait their turn. My next step, had they not changed their plan, would have forced their hand because they would have had to run over me.

Wow, the fact that you are willing to escalate a situation (verbal or nonverbal) and use violence instead of words is unbelievable. By "forcing their hand" you are escalating a situation that wasnt even a major situation to begin with. The fact that you have a CHL on the way is even more scary. Its attitudes like yours that give fuel to anti-CHL folks. If you are really serious about a CHL, leave the tough guy act at home and learn to use words rather than violence. It will save you alot of headaches down the road.

[Valk]

Sorry guys,

I'm really at a loss in reading your comments. Where are all of the "come take it" people. Where are all the folks who can recite all the constitutional amendments? Did I miss it or has someone said you have the right to protect your property.

It is my property and I will go to great lengths to protect it.

Like it or not, I stopped them BEFORE any damage occurred.

[Keith B]

Sorry guys,

I'm really at a loss in reading your comments. Where are all of the "come take it" people. Where are all the folks who can recite all the constitutional amendments? Did miss it or has someone said you have the right to protect your property.

It is my property and I will go to great lengths to protect it.

Like it or not, I stopped them BEFORE any damage occurred.

But the manner in how you go about doing something makes all the difference in the world. From reading your post, you went out with the intention of doing battle from the start, when maybe all it would have taken was a friendly request to not tread on your yard. Sometimes approaching things in a friendly manner can keep something from escalating when it shouldn't.

There is an old addage that says 'When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail'. Sometimes we need to put down the hammer and evaluate the situation before trying to smash it.

[cubbyjg]

Sorry guys,

I'm really at a loss in reading your comments. Where are all of the "come take it" people. Where are all the folks who can recite all the constitutional amendments? Did I miss it or has someone said you have the right to protect your property.

It is my property and I will go to great lengths to protect it.

Like it or not, I stopped them BEFORE any damage occurred.

Maybe because based on the information you provided, no one was taking your property. Was any potential damage worth going to court, spending a bunch of money or even going to jail because you decided to use actions instead of words? Grass grows back, tracks can be fixed, etc.

If you are looking for people to say "good job, you handled the situation great"' well you might not get many on this forum as you have noticed.

[Keith B]

Sorry guys,

I'm really at a loss in reading your comments. Where are all of the "come take it" people. Where are all the folks who can recite all the constitutional amendments? Did I miss it or has someone said you have the right to protect your property.

It is my property and I will go to great lengths to protect it.

Like it or not, I stopped them BEFORE any damage occurred.

I think you need to go back and read TPC 9.41 and 9.42 on use of force/deadly force to protect property and just what is justifiable. http://law.onecle.com/texas/penal/9.41.00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. http://law.onecle.com/texas/penal/9.42.00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Valk]

Sorry guys,

I'm really at a loss in reading your comments. Where are all of the "come take it" people. Where are all the folks who can recite all the constitutional amendments? Did I miss it or has someone said you have the right to protect your property.

It is my property and I will go to great lengths to protect it.

Like it or not, I stopped them BEFORE any damage occurred.

I think you need to go back and read TPC 9.41 and 9.42 on use of force/deadly force to protect property and just what is justifiable. http://law.onecle.com/texas/penal/9.41.00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. http://law.onecle.com/texas/penal/9.42.00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sorry chief. I don't follow url(s) on this board or any others.

I'm done on this thread.

[JALLEN]

I don't know how much of a problem it is in Texas where surveys are much more common when buying property, but here in California, a good many would be surprised to learn the property line they are so enthusiastically defending isn't where they think it is.

I've spent the last 40 years in title and real estate, in various roles. More than once I have handled a situation where a house was built, not merely across property lines but entirely on the wrong lot! I've dealt with swimming pools built on what turns out to be the neighbor's yard. In one case, a man sold ten lots over several years starting back in the 30's, each described by metes and bounds as 200 feet wide. When I got into it, someone had done a survey and discovered that from the north end of the northern most property to the south end of the southern most property was only 1800 feet! After untold thousands of dollars in surveying, lawyers fees, court fights etc., we finally got the neighborhood calmed down, each owning along the lines of possession, but none had 200 feet!

It is not asking too much for someone who has a need to access your property, wherever it is, to ask permission, and agree to restore it to the condition before entry, and most of the time this will be respected, honored and observed, and everyone lives happily ever after.