Churches that meet in public schools - let's change the law!

[reh]

My church meets in a public school building in Austin ISD. It's clear that a regular CCH cannot carry into the building, even on a Sunday when absolutely no school activities are going on. It's also obvious to anyone in the Austin area that Austin ISD is not going to give permission to do so.

I've talked with the pastor and other elders at my church; they would like to have carriers. In fact, the pastor's wife has told me that she would like to get her CHL. It's even to the point that they've considered hiring off-duty law enforcement as security (we are a relatively small congregation and currently do not have any members who are law enforcement, and also do not have the budget to hire someone professionally - which is why we're renting in the first place). There is some concern that just the fact of meeting in a school building increases the threat level for any congregation that does because it's well known that regular CHLs will not be carrying there.

I've contacted my state rep about this. Until I contacted him and he had his staff research it, he was not aware that carrying into a church meeting in a school building was even an issue. And now that his staff has confirmed it, he has assured me that he would like to work to introduce legislation in the upcoming session to provide for this, and has asked me to stay in touch with him about it.

With more and more churches electing to meet in school buildings across the state, this issue is certainly becoming more prevalent. I know of several churches in Austin ISD alone that meet in schools across the city, and I certainly do not know all of them. The total number across the state must be huge.

I'm just hoping to raise some awareness, and would like to ask other CHL holders, especially those whose churches meet in schools, to contact their state reps and/or state senators and let's see if we can get this short-sighted law updated.

Thanks for reading and happy carrying!

[JCole]

Why do churches meet in public schools?

[flechero]

Why do churches meet in public schools?

It's very common for new churches to meet in schools (because it's inexpensive) until they are established and can fund a building of their own.

We just got finished our capital campaign, so in out case we have about a year before the building will be (planned and) built and ready.

[JCole]

If the intent of the change is to expand carry rights to anyone who might be renting the school space, then I'm totally on board. If the intent is to give special rights to churches,in particular, meeting in public schools, then I would have to say that I have no desire to further subsidize religion.

[Panzer Possum]

If the intent of the change is to expand carry rights to anyone who might be renting the school space, then I'm totally on board. If the intent is to give special rights to churches,in particular, meeting in public schools, then I would have to say that I have no desire to further subsidize religion.

I would support the legislature removing the restriction completely, but not half measures. Schools should have the same restrictions as any other agency or business. Public schools would not be able to enforce a 30.06 sign, like public libraries and for the same reasons. Private schools should retain their private property rights, no different than restaurants or shopping malls.

[C-dub]

I did know that some churches met in public schools, but I gotta say that I also thought most of that had stopped. However, it's good to know that the liberals haven't completely taken over and forbid all public schools from having any type of religious activity occurring on public school property. I hope this and many other things get fixed in next years session. Hopefully, beginning on January 21, 2013, we will see a string of improvements in this country and the Great State of Texas.

[gdanaher]

From the school's perspective, it is a revenue generation issue. The more rooms you rent, the better looking the operating budget looks, and for small districts it can amount to a significant income.

[talltex]

My church meets in a public school building in Austin ISD. It's clear that a regular CCH cannot carry into the building, even on a Sunday when absolutely no school activities are going on. It's also obvious to anyone in the Austin area that Austin ISD is not going to give permission to do so.

I've contacted my state rep about this. Until I contacted him and he had his staff research it, he was not aware that carrying into a church meeting in a school building was even an issue. And now that his staff has confirmed it, he has assured me that he would like to work to introduce legislation in the upcoming session to provide for this, and has asked me to stay in touch with him about it.

In my opinion, you're just out of luck until you move into your own property..there's no way any school district is going to change their policy on this to suit any group using or renting space. If they made an exception for one group, it would have to apply to all groups, and they are not about to do that. Trying to force them to change is going to result in your having to find a new meeting place. That's not just Austin ISD, that's any ISD. The state Rep. is just blowing smoke to make you feel better...he knows that no bill opposing a established position supported by the school lobby is ever going to get to the floor.

[C-dub]

If they made an exception for one group, it would have to apply to all groups, and they are not about to do that.

This is exactly the reason why I was surprised they allowed a church or church group to meet on their premises at all. Other school districts have denied churches access because they say they would then have to allow other less desirable groups. Kind of like what the state of Alabama is going through with that adopt a highway program where the KKK wants to adopt a section and the state is trying to keep them from doing so.

[talltex]

If they made an exception for one group, it would have to apply to all groups, and they are not about to do that.

This is exactly the reason why I was surprised they allowed a church or church group to meet on their premises at all. Other school districts have denied churches access because they say they would then have to allow other less desirable groups. Kind of like what the state of Alabama is going through with that adopt a highway program where the KKK wants to adopt a section and the state is trying to keep them from doing so.

I too, am surprised that Austin ISD would allow it at all...more something you might find in a small rural district that doesn't have to deal with alot of special interest groups. If it became widely publicized that they were allowing use by the church group, it wouldn't surprize me if they stopped doing it immediately to avoid that problem.

[reh]

You folks may want to consider getting out on Sunday a bit more. One of the largest churches in the city, Austin Stone, meets every Sunday downtown at Austin High, and has for years - you may want to stop by and check it out some Sunday morning or evening (yes, they are there all day). My church meets in a middle school, and prior to that, we met in an elementary (until the church that was at that time meeting in the middle school decided to move on). The concept of churches that meet in schools, shopping centers, even movie theaters is not new. And it's a growing trend all over the country, not just in Austin or even Texas (or Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, Corpus, etc.). It makes a lot of sense from a financial perspective - the main one being that you're not paying for that space all week long to just sit there (and probably having to air condition it too). You're going to see more and more of especially the small, independent churches electing to not buy a building as time goes on. And btw, churches make some of the best tenants - they leave the place immaculate after each use and cover any damages, minor or major, that may occur. Plus, almost all churches that I know of participate in some of the volunteer programs at the school itself; and the schools, even the more affluent ones, are all begging for more participation with their programs.

As for changing the law, you're right, some schools are going to resist and it's going to be hard, so I guess we ought not try! Seriously though, I'm not asking to carry during school days, or even when school activities are going on (if there happened to be a school event at the same time as our services - then we wouldn't be allowed to carry that day). And yes, this should certainly extend to any other group using the school facilities, I'm not asking for this just because it's a church thing. If the school lobby has such a stranglehold on everything, then why are we even allowed to carry into the parking lot? I don't think my rep is just blowing smoke, he's already talking about and naming other reps that he will be talking to that he thinks will be interested. I think it can be done - maybe not this session, might be a few years down the road (and as you know, most of these changes usually do take time), but we have to start somewhere.

[C-dub]

Hello there reh.

I missed that your first post here was your first post on the forum. Welcome to the form!

I don't have any problem with churches meeting in public schools. I'm just surprised to find out there is as much as you say going on and especially in Austin.

[reh]

Hello there reh. I missed that your first post here was your first post on the forum. Welcome to the form!

Hi C-dub. Thanks so much for the welcome, it's good to finally be here. I must admit that I am a new CHLer, and while I've wanted to do it for years, one of the reasons I finally did so was for church - imagine my surprise (and even disappointment) when I got to the class and found out that carrying in schools at any time is off limits! Anyway, I'm blessed to live in a country where I can, and I'm carrying everywhere else and even to the parking lot at church. BTW - my 21 year old son and I got our CHLs together.

I don't have any problem with churches meeting in public schools. I'm just surprised to find out there is as much as you say going on and especially in Austin.

Yes, it's quite a bit more prolific than many people may realize; kind of like home-schooling. Churches nowadays don't always have a steeple on top of the building, nor are they the old stuffy service many people may think of - many of them (including ours and Austin Stone) have live rock bands performing contemporary worship music at 92+ dB. In the last 10 years, I've attended churches in shopping centers, public school gyms, cafeterias, and auditoriums, a bar (yes, a bar on 5th St right here in Austin), a movie theater, oh yeah, and even in conventional church buildings. My son is in college in Nashville and attends church every Sunday in a bar near his campus (the bar closes at 2:00, and by the time the cleaning crew is leaving around 6:00am, the church volunteers, including my son, are showing up to set up for church). The bottom line is that churches are going where the people are in order to reach out to them. And for a neighborhood, that is often a nearby school.

[jmra]

As far as I'm concerned, since it is legal to carry in a church that is renting a hotel room then it should be no different for any church who is paying rent. If we are going to continue the ridiculous practice of banning CHL from school buildings in order to protect the children, then why not amend the law to be effective only during school hours or during any posted school events. Simply put, if it is school sponsored and in a school building, during that time frame you can not carry.

It would also be very easy to limit carry to the area rented.

I might also add that should the school lease out space for profit for non-educational/non-ISD activities, the "school" designation along with the tax exemption status should be removed for the time slots specified in the lease.

[reh]

jmra - I like your thinking. That is exactly the common sense approach that I think the legislature needs to look at. If there's not a sanctioned school event taking place on the premises, then the building should be open to carry.

On a larger note (and I am sure that this has been beat on countless times on this forum), how can the people in charge of educating Texas children think that CHL holders are somehow dangerous to those children? It makes no sense at all.