Carry No More

[Kadelic]

I often feel the way the OP does...I try to carry as often as I can, but the statistical odds make me wonder sometimes...

It's kind of like playing the lottery. The odds are extremely long, and you've got to be in it to win it, but someone is going to win eventually. The thing with real life is that you've automatically bought a ticket every day you wake up. Nobody expects to "win" but if my number does come up I'd rather be packing than not, all things considered. Take my analogy with a grain (or shaker) of salt though, I'm still waiting on my plastic so I've never carried.

[jimlongley]

Thank you to everyone who responded... both supportive and critical.

To clarify, I am not afraid to defend myself or my loved ones from an attacker. And I am not fearful of prosecution for anyplace I may or may not have carried. And I am not afraid of the responsibility of carrying.

I am concerned about police over reaction during a routine traffic stop or an accidental un-concealing while shopping... like the late Erik Scott. I am concerned about over zealous prosecutors and anti-gun judges. I am concerned about the legal nightmare that is likely after a SD shooting, not even to mention the possible civil suits following a criminal case. Perhaps I should have read up on all of that before jumping through the hoops to get my CHL, but I did not and that is where I am now, like it or not.

I do believe that the likelihood of having to defend myself outside of my home with deadly force is less than the likelihood of unjust persecution. But, to be crystal clear, I am not advocating that ANYONE follow my lead... every man must decide for himself what his personal situation requires.

All of that said... I did carry yesterday. The supportive and critical replies to my original post were read, considered and appreciated.

Just because you are paranoid, does not mean they are not after you.

[74novaman]

Thank you to everyone who responded... both supportive and critical.

To clarify, I am not afraid to defend myself or my loved ones from an attacker. And I am not fearful of prosecution for anyplace I may or may not have carried. And I am not afraid of the responsibility of carrying.

All of that said... I did carry yesterday. The supportive and critical replies to my original post were read, considered and appreciated.

Thanks for coming back and expanding on your position a bit more.

I would encourage you to look for cases in Texas where a CHL holder in a justified shoot was dragged over the coals in court...

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at the lack of cases you're able to find.

[03Lightningrocks]

I will throw in one more item of importance. Don't believe everything you read on these gun forums. Many times the posters are living vicariously through other posters on varying forums. More than a few times I have read posts made here that were posted in other places by other posters. Many times years before. My point is, the stories of police harrassment of legitimate CHL holders are mostly rehashed from other internet forums. It is VERY RARE to be harrassed by the police over legally carrying a firearm. Same goes for being outed. Many of those stories are also rehashed for effect and burped out here to make for conversation. Google some of them and you will laugh. Carry your weapon with no worry of police harrassment. It is not going to happen. The cops don't know you have a gun as long as it is concealed. They don't have x-ray vision.

[03Lightningrocks]

Thank you to everyone who responded... both supportive and critical.

To clarify, I am not afraid to defend myself or my loved ones from an attacker. And I am not fearful of prosecution for anyplace I may or may not have carried. And I am not afraid of the responsibility of carrying.

All of that said... I did carry yesterday. The supportive and critical replies to my original post were read, considered and appreciated.

Thanks for coming back and expanding on your position a bit more.

I would encourage you to look for cases in Texas where a CHL holder in a justified shoot was dragged over the coals in court...

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at the lack of cases you're able to find.

FACT!!!!

[RPB]

I will throw in one more item of importance. Don't believe everything you read on these gun forums. Many times the posters are living vicariously through other posters on varying forums. More than a few times I have read posts made here that were posted in other places by other posters. Many times years before. My point is, the stories of police harrassment of legitimate CHL holders are mostly rehashed from other internet forums. It is VERY RARE to be harrassed by the police over legally carrying a firearm. Same goes for being outed. Many of those stories are also rehashed for effect and burped out here to make for conversation. Google some of them and you will laugh. Carry your weapon with no worry of police harrassment. It is not going to happen. The cops don't know you have a gun as long as it is concealed. They don't have x-ray vision.

It must be true if I read it on the Internets.

Statistical odds:
It's true that it's unlikely that a gun will ever be needed (hopefully)
When I quit smoking, the risk of fire in the house was lowered, I recall 2 fires, one from a faulty extension cord, one from some alcohol based hand cleaner which ignited, and no one knows how. ... I keep a fire extinguisher though.
I have had flats on 3 occasions over 50 years. I rarely have a flat tire, but I waste gas hauling around the weight of a jack and a spare anyway.
Stores I was in were robbed by gunmen on 2 occasions back in the 1970s. Statistically, I'll probably never ever need my gun, but I haul it around anyway because as with the other tools listed above, I'd rather have it.
Besides, hauling around the extra weight here in the hill country keeps my legs in shape so as I age, I'll be able to walk longer hopefully, my niece "borrowed" my leg weights years ago.
I know a deacon CHL who carries in his cars, un-chambered due to grandkids he totes around, but doesn't carry on body. I know a retired LEO CHL who owns well over a hundred 1911s, goes to all gun shows, but rarely carries a loaded gun (due to weight and clothing choices he hasn't adapted yet.... he just recently, after being licensed for years, started pocket carrying a P238.

I moved to the country, no real fear of being robbed of home invaders (though a violent criminal home invader with 3 life sentences escaped last week and was found blocks away) and no fear of being arrested for carrying,... police here pretty much wish everyone was armed and carried a spare magazine (of the type they carry) ... just in case on a lonely farm road they need help). I still see rabid skunks, a porcupine in the front yard or a rattlesnake or wild boar sometimes, haven't needed my gun, nor fire extinguisher nor spare tire and jack, but I feel undressed if I leave the house without them .... I used to feel that way if I left the house without a comb for my hair too ... time and baldness cures that one. The odds of me needing a comb now .... well ...

Thanks for coming back and expanding on your position a bit more.

I would encourage you to look for cases in Texas where a CHL holder in a justified shoot was dragged over the coals in court...

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at the lack of cases you're able to find.

[Heartland Patriot]

I will throw in one more item of importance. Don't believe everything you read on these gun forums. Many times the posters are living vicariously through other posters on varying forums. More than a few times I have read posts made here that were posted in other places by other posters. Many times years before. My point is, the stories of police harrassment of legitimate CHL holders are mostly rehashed from other internet forums. It is VERY RARE to be harrassed by the police over legally carrying a firearm. Same goes for being outed. Many of those stories are also rehashed for effect and burped out here to make for conversation. Google some of them and you will laugh. Carry your weapon with no worry of police harrassment. It is not going to happen. The cops don't know you have a gun as long as it is concealed. They don't have x-ray vision.

Good looking out...

[steve817]

Thank you to everyone who responded... both supportive and critical.

To clarify, I am not afraid to defend myself or my loved ones from an attacker. And I am not fearful of prosecution for anyplace I may or may not have carried. And I am not afraid of the responsibility of carrying.

I am concerned about police over reaction during a routine traffic stop or an accidental un-concealing while shopping... like the late Erik Scott. I am concerned about over zealous prosecutors and anti-gun judges. I am concerned about the legal nightmare that is likely after a SD shooting, not even to mention the possible civil suits following a criminal case. Perhaps I should have read up on all of that before jumping through the hoops to get my CHL, but I did not and that is where I am now, like it or not.

I do believe that the likelihood of having to defend myself outside of my home with deadly force is less than the likelihood of unjust persecution. But, to be crystal clear, I am not advocating that ANYONE follow my lead... every man must decide for himself what his personal situation requires.

All of that said... I did carry yesterday. The supportive and critical replies to my original post were read, considered and appreciated.

That depends on where in the state you live. Here in Arlington, the police officers that I have spoken to have been nothing but supportive.

[gdanaher]

Can anyone provide factual or anecdotal examples of Texas LEO actions which would precipitate the feelings the OP has expressed? Sometimes we forget that Texas also begins at the state line, that this is not California, and no, the LAPD does not instruct our officers how to behave in public.

[RPB]

If accidentally un-concealing is a big concern ... one can always get a different setup/equipment.
I'd be super-surprised if anyone could spot a pocket carried Seecamp, in .380 which is what I'd carry if Campus Carry passed and a school made a "policy" that they'd expel licensed a person found carrying.

lots of types of holsters for it
http://www.google.com/search?q=seecamp& ... 24&bih=636" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.seecamp.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Alternate to Seecamp is
MPA Protector
http://www.tacticalgearmag.com/page/sma ... istols-for" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Lambda Force]

Can anyone provide factual or anecdotal examples of Texas LEO actions which would precipitate the feelings the OP has expressed? Sometimes we forget that Texas also begins at the state line, that this is not California, and no, the LAPD does not instruct our officers how to behave in public.

I don't want to scare the OP but here's one from 2 years ago. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=31719&start=270" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There also many stories of people being arbitrarily and capriciously disarmed because they showed their CHL. If they were carrying under MPA instead and kept their mouth shut like MPA allows, they wouldn't have been disarmed. There are also stories of people who had a CHL and weren't carrying so the law doesn't require them to show (or even carry) their CHL, and the cop hassled them because they didn't display the card. In a few cases, the bully said things that were borderline threats or even outright threats. Those stories are a good argument for not getting a Texas license.

Like steve817 said, it depends where you live. Some parts of Texas are still Texas, but some have more in common with NY or LA or Mexico City than the United States. There's also the risk of showing up on the radar of someone cut from the same cloth as Daniel Harless.

[gdanaher]

If accidentally un-concealing is a big concern ... one can always get a different setup/equipment.
I'd be super-surprised if anyone could spot a pocket carried Seecamp, in .380 which is what I'd carry if Campus Carry passed and a school made a "policy" that they'd expel licensed a person found carrying.

lots of types of holsters for it
http://www.google.com/search?q=seecamp& ... 24&bih=636" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.seecamp.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Alternate to Seecamp is
MPA Protector
http://www.tacticalgearmag.com/page/sma ... istols-for" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That pistol looks strangely like those produced awhile back by various companies, the last I know of being Jimenez. They were cast out of zinc. previous company was put out of budiness in California after a law suit for their product exploding in an owner's face and blinding him. Same product,. different name??

Also, if you own a small pistol, take a look at Sneeky Pete Holsters. It looks like a Blackberry case but holds my P238 just fine.

[RPB]

There's a world of difference in a Stainless Steel Seecamp .32 ($500-ish) http://www.buytelescopes.com/Products/1 ... ndard.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
or .380 ($850-ish, but a couple years ago they were $1,200 on Gunbroker) http://www.gunsamerica.com/928360769/Gu ... 380acp.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and a $100 Pot metal Jimenez
I got my Seecamps in the 80s before LW died, when each was still hand made, they may still be.
Used to be a 6 month wait while he made yours after you ordered it.
Read about L W Seecamp, you'll see.

There's other pocket carry options if Seecamp is too expensive, but it sets a standard for quality/size.

[drjoker]

even if it is true that you may unintentionally carry somewhere you shouldn't and then get in trouble, you should still do it and go to court to defend the constitution and your human right to self defense. the constitution is what makes america great and free. it is worth fighting for.

that said, carrying a gun is a big responsibility and not everyone is up to it. best of luck to ya....

[kjolly]

Lots of responsiblities in CHL carry. I can understand your concerns however mine is I want to be the one going home and the one to protect my family from home. If I've done something wrong or just dumb I stand ready to pay the price for the benefit of keeping family safe.