Retail Theft question

[speedsix]

...wow...you'd have had your hands full on that one...or not...depending on His mood... (He was an ace escape artist, you know)

[jimlongley]

No matter what the gender, if someone in apparent authority asks me to help, I'll probably be helping. Maybe it's the volunteer fireman in me.

In the scenario given, I would, and I also know that my carry gun is secured well enough to avoid loss in all but pretty extreme circumstances.

[Lambda Force]

Target PAYS people to serve as security for Target's assets.

I am NOT one of those people.

Nuff said.

+1

...if the loss prevention employee couldn't handle someone for lack of training...the sooner she finds it out, the sooner she finds her true calling...which ISN'T loss prevention...

+2

[74novaman]

Steve, thanks for the relevant citation of Texas law.

I guess my own limited time in retail got in my way here. We were always told if we observed someone shoplifting, to report it to the manager....approach the person and ask "Is there anything I can help you with?" as a subtle 'I'm watching you' message...give them every opportunity to pay...and let the manager/cops deal with it if they walked out.

I just can't imagine that any place still tries to apprehend shoplifters over $25 bucks of goods when the possibility of a multi million dollar lawsuit can arise if it isn't handled just right....

And as CHL holders we should take into account that jumping into the situation AS DESCRIBED could lead to some serious legal trouble.

How many here who said they'd jump in and help out know exactly what the law says you can and can't do to "legally detain" someone?

I sure as heck dont, and its not worth the potential loss of my money, freedom, or right to carry to jump in a strangers dispute over a pair of socks.



It's been said before that we're not cops, we're not batman...we just have a CHL. Unless someone is actually physically harming someone else.....I'm not jumping into the fray.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Helping a store employee who requested assistance is not the same as helping a peace officer. Your friend was helping a citizen make a citizen's arrest for something that could well have been a misdemeanor. Citizens can only make a citizen's arrest for a felony or an offense against the public peace. Tex. Code Crim. Proc. §14.01. Since the loss control employee started the encounter, your friend was on very thin ice.

Chas.

[tommyg]

I was in a situation at a Walmart in Austin Three employees were
struggling to hold a shoplifter. I stood to the side and stayed out of it.
Anything short of the shop lifter pulling a weapon and tring to use it on the store employees
is not worth getting involved. The security woman at target was doing her job.
If she can't handle the security job she needs to try to get transferred to being a shelf stocker.
Looks like Target made the mistake of hiring someone who could not handle the job.

[03Lightningrocks]

There was a time when I would have immediately assumed the woman deserved assistance when struggling with a man. Times have changed and women are at times tougher than most men. I would have probably called a cop and made the comment that the police are on the way. Then I would have stood off to the side in case the guy started beating her down. I would have intervened verbally at first, and then in a most dangerous manner if he failed to stop pounding her. No way I could have walked off like I did not care!

While we never know what is what these days when spotting two people in a confrontation, something in me just won't let me do the yankee thing and walk off. My first thought is never to jump in, but instead to observe from a defensive position and assertain what is going on, while calling the police on my cell phone. No need to get involved unless someone is about to be seriously hurt or killed.

[tallmike]

I am in agreement with pretty much everyone else here. I can't imagine Target would help me out with attorney's etc. if the guy chose to sue so I hope Target does not expect me to help them out when their employee steps over the line of rational thinking.

Even if the situation made me feel compelled to get involved, I would NOT have helped to hold the guy there until cops arrived. Once I got him to stop harming the security guard I would have backed off and let him run - if that was what he chose to do.

[ralewis]

I'm the original poster..... Thanks for all the replies. And to the volunteer firefighter who responded, thanks especially for your reply. I spent 20 years as a Vol Firefighter, and my instincts are to react to help. That's actually exactly what I'm concerned about in this particular situation. I *think* I probably would have reacted and helped. I'm not sure if that would be the legal or appropriate thing to do especially when carrying. In this scenario, my neighbor was walking out of the store as this was occurring and reacted to the situation rather than making an analytical decision. I probably would have done the same thing -- which is why I started this topic.

What I got out of this thread though (I hope) was a bit more pre-planning for a scenario I hadn't considered before. Maybe rather than reacting, I'd take a step back and be a good witness. If the situation turned into an assault with a deadly weapon, perhaps then that would be the time to get involved. Tough to know for sure though until a situation unfolds in front of me.

[03Lightningrocks]

Even if the situation made me feel compelled to get involved, I would NOT have helped to hold the guy there until cops arrived. Once I got him to stop harming the security guard I would have backed off and let him run - if that was what he chose to do.

I would do the same thing if I were in a place and it was getting robbed. As long as the BG's were not harming anyone and leaving, we would be good.

[74novaman]

What I got out of this thread though (I hope) was a bit more pre-planning for a scenario I hadn't considered before. Maybe rather than reacting, I'd take a step back and be a good witness. If the situation turned into an assault with a deadly weapon, perhaps then that would be the time to get involved. Tough to know for sure though until a situation unfolds in front of me.

That sounds like a pretty good plan.

[nyj]

Wouldn't get involved. How many times have security guards tried to ILLEGALLY detain someone? Imagine if you were that guy she was wrestling with. You didn't do anything, but she's confusing you with someone else and trying to detain you illegally. Not their part to touch people, IMO.

[ELB]

Count me in the club of "not getting involved with alleged shoplifters." (and I am a vollie FF too...) If she's gettin' stomped, that's a different story, different decision.

My local PD regularly posts pics and videos on Facebook of people who walked out of the local Walmart with all kinds of stuff, like $700+ of shampoo, 32 inch TV, etc... apparently they have a "do not detain" policy, but it does seem to result in some pretty sizable thefts. There are so many that people on FB are commenting that Walmart should be charged $$ to pay for the police chasing all their shoplifters. Can't win, I guess.

But if you are really gung ho to help the store with their shoplifting problems, here is a real challenge for you:
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/entertai ... aked-video" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[speedsix]

..and with that post, I'll leave y'all deep in the Valley of Decision.... ...I'm outahere!!!

[sugar land dave]

IBTL.